draw length obsevation...your opinions please

[Mudd]

I have been trying to understand my form since getting started back into shooting. Mostly just this past year and I am appalled at what I found out about myself and my lack of consistency.
 I guess I should be happy that I shoot as well as do considering the fact that I don't do everything the same all the time... but I ain't! I will do whatever it takes to make myself do it one way.. all the time.
That idea presents a new problem. where/how do I find that acceptable starting point then how do I progress to get to where I want to be or better yet how do I know where I should be(for me/my build ect. ect.)
 I feel a little like I'm chasing my tail here since I'm not even happy with how I formulate my questions(s)

Is step one set a goal? Is the goal realistic? I mean just because I want to draw 28, will I?, should I? or is it something different I should be trying to accomplish? If so, what?

Thank you for starting this thread. I know I need to firm up my form,my draw, my anchor and my groups(if you can call them groups),.... my shooting tells me so.

God bless,Mudd
PS I guess all of this could be summed up by saying... help!!Please!!

[George D. Stout]

It's why I fuss about the dumb questions about draw weight for elk, or draw weight for deer.  A 60# bow underdrawn by two inches will not be as effective as a 50# drawn to length and with a proper release.

Most folks who get into the sport without a coach or mentor who has shot awhile, get into the static release, or worse yet, a collapsing release.  Some of that is starting out with too heavy a bow and ingraining bad form into the body and mind.

I learned the dynamic release in the early 1970's through reading about shooting form from guys like Milan Elott, and Al Henderson.  It's not a difficult thing, but it has to be understood.  

I have shot with fellows who are shooting sixty five pound recurves, and they are amazed that my 45 or 50 pound bows will shoot as far or farther then their heavy recurves.  Once you explain the form, they kinda' get it.  Then I can take their bow and shoot it thirty yards past their longest shot.

Nowadays we aren't into form and accuracy, as much as we are into style points and brand names.
We certainly need a change of mindset, and maybe a visit back to the real how-to series.  This is a simple sport, but there are categorical imperatives that must be understood.

[Mike Bolin]

Well, I am pleased with the input I have received thus far. I hesitated posting on this subject because some folks are pretty touchy about their draw length/bow poundage. I think that some guys feel their "manhood" is being questioned! LOL!! Keep the opinions coming in.
Thanks, Mike

[mcgroundstalker]

Well Said George! You are right on target.

Hey Mike... You know what they say... "Tall man, long draw. Short man, all draw." ...  :D  ...

... mike ...    ...

[Don Stokes]

While in the arrow shaft business I saw this over and over. I had a test arrow marked to measure draw length, and when the archer was aware of the measurement being made, he or she would draw the bow well. When shooting while relaxed, though, I would ease over to the side and observe, and more often than not the same archer's draw would be significantly shorter, many times as much as two inches. Made it devilishly hard to get a good match for some people.

[Shaun]

I have noticed this on many archers and especially myself. I made a conscious decision to find a back tension form and use it. Instead of a clicker, I look at the point and draw it to the shelf, then notice how my back tension feels in this position and try to repeat it. I shoot better, even when I break concentration on the mark to check my arrow point / draw length in the middle of the process.

Try to use this mantra when shooting, "Pick a spot - draw the bow - anchor tight - and let it go." With emphasis on "draw the bow" meaning full draw to good form.

I am 5'10" with wide shoulders and regular arms, draw length with my best form and back tension is 27.5". I can get another 3/4" if I try but my form suffers.

[Ben Maher]

i'm a touch over 5 foot ten and draw just on 27 " with a heel down longbow ... a bit over with my 'curves . if i drop down to " target " weight bows under 35# my draw is  easier not longer .every couple of days i shoot some blunts with tape wrapped around the shaft at my true draw length so that it pushes up against my bow hand and still lets me pull through the shot . i still have to ensure that i use my back though ... its an everyday thing for me as i have picked up and learned so many bad habits ... and i teach archery !!!
 .
i just don't let the kids see me shoot . LOL

Ben

[bowslinger]

I have found for myself that when I start grouping arrows to the right or left, and can't seem to find the bullseye, I automatically assume a poor release or poor grip.  Pretty soon, I am spraying arrows all over the place.

What I usually figure out when I stop and concentrate on form, is that I am short drawing.  When I use back tension, push my bow arm out, and do not collapse or hunch my bow shoulder, my groups immediately tighten and fall back on target.  My bow seems to shoot quieter and my arrow flight improves.  I would gues when I short draw, it is about 1 to 1.5 inches on average, but have not videotaped myself lately.  I bet that when I do, though, I am much more conscious of form.  

I have also noticed, along with others on this post, that many trad shooters tend to short draw, even when shooting 45- to 50-pound bows.  Some shooters are certainly overbowed, but I don't believe that is always the cause of short drawing.

Great post Mike!

[Skipmaster1]

I noticed myself in pictures with quite a bit of arrow hanging off the riser. I'm not over bowed, I just hunch up. I ended up shooting this way because for some reason i shoot very well this way under 15yds and I guess it was easier. I have been trying to break myself of the habbit and am getting much better at reaching full draw and keeping my form. I recently set up a range in the basement next to my archery work bench. It's only 7yds and I have to sit down or my limb tips will hit the rafters.....but hey it's 2am and 20 degrees out and i just got done shooting! what i did notice is that by shooting from a chair, turned 90 degrees from the target, if I keep my back tight into the back of the chair, I can't "hunch up". This has helped my form and helped me hit my draw much easier and consistantly

[NDTerminator]

Like everyone else I try to duplicate my draw every shot, but it seems it isn't an absolute necessity, at least to a true instinctive shhoter.

In one of my books on him from my formative years,Papa Bear described how he whacked the then world record Stone Sheep with an arrow to the center of the chest using a half draw lob shot as it looked at him with just some of it's head & neck exposed from the back side of a ridge line.

He couldn't make the shot with a straight line full draw shot, so he simply didn't use one. I don't think I could make that shot with 50 practice attempts first.

Amazing guy...

[riivioristo]

Great post, need to ask my wife to take some photos to chek my situation, but could it be, that in posing for a picture one kinda dont do the stance all the way, but thinks more how he looks?  

[Mike Bolin]

I find the responses kind of refreshing! I actually hesitated posting this topic! It looks as if I am not the only one who has noticed the "extra" arrow hanging off the riser! I do realize that alot of shooters are shooting higher spined shafting and leaving it long to get their setups tuned (with inserts, heavier broadheads, ect.) and achieve a higher foc. Thanks to all for the thoughtful responses thus far and I look forward to reading some additional ones.
Mike

[Kenneth]

I've learned a lot on this site from Terry's pics and some of the posts in threads including this one.  I have always stated myself as having a 27" draw but what I've found after a lot of focus on my form and back tension is that I'm actually most consistent at about 28.5"  I just started back shooting trad this year and I made my anchor point to be the back of a shield cut feather in the corner of my mouth.  Well depending on how far from the nock groove the feather is placed or if I tried to shoot with another type of fletching other than a high profile shield then my draw length was inconsistent and made tuning my bow and accuracy past 20yds a nightmare.  I was also leaning my head into the shot and then releasing as soon as I hit anchor.  Now I focus on keeping my head in proper position and drawing/ shooting with a bare shaft so I can use my thumb knuckle in the back of my ear as my anchor, and I'm still fighting to hold once I reach anchor instead of releasing right away.  With all this cold weather it gives me lots of time to practice in my garage and build the strength to hold the weight at full draw.  After only about a week of focusing on all of this; I took my bow out yesterday to do some stumping and look for squirrels.  Well I didn't see any squirrels, but every corn stalk or dirt pile I shot at was dead centered and shots were from 20yds out to 45yds.

[J. Cook]

I'm quite a bit different than what many have posted here.  I definately am not into the gap vs instinctive debate (to each their own).  But I tend to be (what I believe to be) and instinctive shooter.  I don't worry much about distance and I pull up and shoot.  I don't worry about hitting "anchor" as I snap shoot as the shot feels right.  Now...when target shooting, that's different - I will focus more on form.  But when there is game or a stump in front of me...I pull up and shoot and often that results in a quicker, less drawn shot.  

I may be wrong, but I believe Fred Bear and Hill, and Byron Ferguson were/are snap shooters.  If you watch many of them, especially the ones that shoot exhibitions, their draw hand rarely reaches their face, but they release clean while on the drawstroke vs releasing from a static or "creeping" anchor.  

So...I attribute my own occasions of "shorter drawing" to snap shooting.  I could be ridiculously wrong       , I've been known to have been wrong before (once). hahaha

if I try and anchor and hold...I'm all over the target vs cleanly pulling up and shooting.

[Kenneth]

J,  that's kinda how I am right now but I'm trying to build up my back muscles so I can hold longer if I have to in a hunting situation.  I refer to my anchor as being a spot that I consistently have to hit before I release.  In most situations I've got my eyes burning a hole where I want the arrow to go long before I've reached "anchor".

[reddogge]

I know that if I stand with my shoulder, forearm and feet in a direct line to the target my draw is the longest.  If I turn or hunch it will get shorter.

When I take a shot at an animal one of my thought keys is "pull to full draw" before letting the arrow go.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

A person may have a lot of arrow hanging out the front of his bow because he intentionally left them long. Honestly, I really don’t pay much attention to how other people are shooting at 3Ds. I usually have my hands full worrying about myself.

Do some people not draw as far as they think they do, or have inconsistent draw lengths? I have no doubt. But not everyone who says they have a long draw length is overstating the fact. Personally, I’m 6’4” and draw a recurve 32”. And yes, that’s an exact measurement. I use a clicker.    

[LKH]

The only way to tell another's draw length is to watch him shoot.  Then tell him and get ready for an argument.  He'll also start to draw a little longer.  

I shoot arrows with about 3" sticking out, but it's to get the spine right on these carbons.  I have about a 26-7" draw.

[JEFF B]

hey mike if it aint broke dont fix it.  

[Rob DiStefano]

from some of the post replies to this thread, that's why it's so important to assess your true draw length with a very light holding weight bow.  there are no exceptions to this and those that think otherwise find problems sooner if not later.  

adding to the above, do strive to get your form analyzed by a worthy coach or knowledgeable archery mentor.  

yes, i know - YOU don't need anyone to tell you how to shoot your bow, after all, you're pretty good at harvesting meat, roving and even at the 3D game.  

in your best interests, you have no clue as to what you're missing, if anything, until your shooting is analyzed by a pro.  got nothing to lose but typically less bucks than buying a new set of carbons and time.  

back in the 50's i spent years of learning how to shoot incorrectly on my own, only to have been fortunate to receive proper instructions and training in the early 60's by a real pro coach.  that made a HUGE difference, and change, to my form and draw length and my overall consistency/accuracy at roving, hunting and punching paper.

as always, ymmv.