Wonderin, assumin n confusein.

[HcSmitty]

So i hear all this about EFoC n UFoc.  And to a greenhorn its all sooo confuseing.  I dont kno how u calculate it n all.  My draw is 24 1/2 ins, so im shootin 44lbs. I shoot  trad only 600 shafts(full length) with 125 grains heads.  
  Im starin to really study this FoC thing.  Sooo im thinkin about really bumpin up the weight i got up front, 200 or possibly 300 grains.  Seems as though this would be too weak though.  I mean, my head up front would be heavier than the actual shaft.  How do all yall calculate FoC.  Do yall worry about it??  Do u just figure it out when u bare shaft ur arrows??  This stuff is all so confuseing.  

Hunter Smith.

[just_a_hunter]

[Rob DiStefano]

if yer new to trad archery, forget anything to do with foc - for now.  read and heed this ...

 trad newbies - tackle

[George D. Stout]

Listen:  Do not read the Ashby Report.  As a new traditional archer you have lots of fundamentals to understand before being so confused.  Listen to Rob and click on the trad newbies - tackle thingy 8^).

[HcSmitty]

Look ive been shootin for 4 years.  Maybe im not fresh Fish but im still in the beginning stages. Ive killed deer n piles of small game.  Ive ALSO wounded a few animals as well.  All im tryin to do by readin the report n askin ?'s is advance n knowledge and become a better bowhunter.  If yall dont want new people on here askin ?'s, maybe yall should make a policy about it or something.  You cant get all upidy about somebody wantin to learn n get better.

Hunter Smith.

[lpcjon2]

K.I.S.S. keep it simple starting out thats what I did and still do.Otherwise you feel like your having lunch with the guys from MIT

[George D. Stout]

He can read all he wants but he needs to get started in a simple manner.  Dr. Ashby's report is pretty specific in what it calls for and it has nothing to do with learning shooting form and getting basics ingrained.  The gent is admittedly confused, and if I thought he would gain anything from that report, I would tell him to go ahead and read it.  Fact is, he will be bypassing important ingredients for basic tuning, and learning technique.  He will have lots of time to get involved in those things as he grows in the sport.   Nothing "uppity" about it.  It's nuts and bolts.

[joevan125]

Get your form down and then start worring about all this other confusing talk.

[Rob DiStefano]

hs, listen to what george sez, he's steering you right.  don't get caught up in the 'gpp - foc' thing, that's a great place to go AFTER you can shoot consistently at hunting distances without even thinking.  gotta crawl 'fore ya walk, bud.

[dick sable]

I agree, George and Rob. Hunter, you just got A-1 advice. Hemingway once said "there are some things which cannot be learned quickly, and time, which is all we have must be paid heavily for their acquiring" ..... the bow and arrow does teach that, for sure!

[Ragnarok Forge]

Rob and George nailed it on the head.  Buy a good book and a video or two on proper form and arrow / bow tuning.  Work to get what you have tuned and yourself shooting with good form.  Once that comes together you can jump into FOC and other such archery subjects.

[Brian Krebs]

There are really two things that lead to success; one is accuracy and shot placement- and the other is a sharp broadhead.
 You can be perfect with FOC and accuracy and all that; but when it comes down to the moments after the shot- your depending on- hitting where you want; and the broadhead being sharp.
 Sharp does not mean you buy stainless steel heads and shoot into a foam target until your good; and then go hunting with them; or even shooting ONCE after the heads are sharp.
 Sharp is a responsibility over all else.

If you need help with that- we can help. FOC and all the things we say about flinging arrows does not mean anything if your not shooting sharp broadheads.

 We all know that here; but often new people do just not know: the drastic importance of it.

[inn8hunter]

In defense of HC, and being a newb myself. The first arrows I shot through my 45#'er were heavy cedars set up for a #55 bow at Dwyer's. I am now shooting lighter carbons with a 100 grain tip and I think I was more stable to learn with a heavier arrow. I could be wrong.

I am going to move up to the 5575 arrow and weaken it with 100 grain insert and 125 - 150 heads. It is a good match according to Stu's calculator. And, myself, I'd rather learn on a slower arrow to watch the flight.

Tim

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

Seems a might bold to ask for advice then call those who give it "upidy". I'll take the risk in being called "upidy" and tell you straight up that if you aren't willing to be humble you'll miss DECADES of the best advice you can get on the subject of archery. There are MASTERS here, and almost any question you can think of has been answered to the point of exhaustion - use the search button and give thanks - or "button up". Respectfully.

[inn8hunter]

And, as Northern said, I don't know where I'd be without this forum and all of the private help that was sent my way. I wouldn't even know what the difference between too stiff and too weak was - lol.

It is amazing at just how much I've learned in about one month of being on this forum.

Tim

[Rob DiStefano]

there are four aspects of learning trad archery for a newbie - tackle, setup, form and your mental outlook.

the tackle part is the easiest:
* low holding weight bow - must be shake and tremor free at a 3 second full draw hold
* carbon or aluminum arrows - the arrows are far more important than the bow in terms of consistency.  your newbie form consistency will get mixed along with inconsistent arrows and you won't really know where the fault lies.  i mentioned alums, but carbons are absolutely best.

setting up bows and arrows:
* you WILL need one-on-one help from a coach or seasoned archer in order to set the bow's brace height and build arrows that will fly true.  you can sure try to do it on yer own, but you will waste time and money, and some folks just never will get it right.

good form as it applies to your physique:
* a coach or pro mentor will get you started within an hour and eliminate bad habits from the get-go as well as saving huge lumps of time and money.    

the mental game:
* lots will depend on yer ability to focus and stay focused, and listen to your mentor.  do not practice when yer head's not in the game, that's a waste of time which could set your progress back.

finally, if it ain't fun or challenging, why bother doing it?   :D

[rabbit_buster]

sad to say but i beleive the california hunter has given the best advice....i have shot a recurve bow for 4 years with no help or advice from anybody, and have learned more in the last 3 months from these forums than those 4 years. so my advice is stop typing and read what these guys have to say.....

[NDTerminator]

I don't remotely doubt Dr. Asby's research, and I get the single bevel bit as well, but...

Don't even worry about the maxxed out FOC & heavyweight broadhead bit at this point.  The biggest tuning concern for you is simply to make sure your arrow is properly spined for your bow set up, so that it flies well.  Then enjoy learning to shoot Trad.

I can report from first hand experience that a relatively lightweight carbon or alum arrow (say, 500-550 grains total weight) that flies well from your bow, topped with a sharp good quality standard bevel broadhead of 125-150 grains (for example a Magnus or Zwickey 2 blade, readily available for around $27 a half dozen) with an FOC of 10%-15%, launched from a recurve of 45-55#, will bury to the fletching or pass through a broadside deer's chest at 20-22 yards virtually every time...

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by NDTerminator:
I don't remotely doubt Dr. Asby's research, and I get the single bevel bit as well, but...

Don't even worry about the maxxed out FOC & heavyweight broadhead bit at this point.  The biggest tuning concern for you is simply to make sure your arrow is properly spined for your bow set up, so that it flies well.  Then enjoy learning to shoot Trad.

I can report from first hand experience that a relatively lightweight carbon or alum arrow (say, 500-550 grains total weight) that flies well from your bow, topped with a sharp good quality standard bevel broadhead of 125-150 grains (for example a Magnus or Zwickey 2 blade, readily available for around $27 a half dozen) with an FOC of 10%-15%, launched from a recurve of 45-55#, will bury to the fletching or pass through a broadside deer's chest at 20-22 yards virtually every time...

right on, brother of the stick 'n' string!    

[inn8hunter]

Originally posted by NDTerminator:
I don't remotely doubt Dr. Asby's research, and I get the single bevel bit as well, but...

Don't even worry about the maxxed out FOC & heavyweight broadhead bit at this point.  The biggest tuning concern for you is simply to make sure your arrow is properly spined for your bow set up, so that it flies well.  Then enjoy learning to shoot Trad.

I can report from first hand experience that a relatively lightweight carbon or alum arrow (say, 500-550 grains total weight) that flies well from your bow, topped with a sharp good quality standard bevel broadhead of 125-150 grains (for example a Magnus or Zwickey 2 blade, readily available for around $27 a half dozen) with an FOC of 10%-15%, launched from a recurve of 45-55#, will bury to the fletching or pass through a broadside deer's chest at 20-22 yards virtually every time...

ND:

Here is where my "newbness" is going to prob. get me in trouble, so I apologize in advance - lol.

I have some 3555 with 100 grain tips coming out of my 45# bow. They seem to fly well, and at 8 - 10 yards actually "zip" to the target.

Went I went to Dave Dywer's ( a custom bowyer) to set up our inexpensive Samick's, all he had was heavier arrows spined for his heavier bow. They shot well and I just felt much more comfortable with the "slower" arrow. Seemed to not "jump" so much when shooting.

I had one day this week where things "clicked" for me. I backed up to 15 yards and could actually see my arrow "arching" a bit and started to visualize watching that arc and low and behold, I started shooting really well - respectively for my level.

What I am getting to is this, if according to Stu's calculator, I can go to a 5575 with a 100 grain insert and a 150 grain broadhead, 30" arrow - wouldn't it produce a more quiet, less jumpy arrow that may be easier for a "newb" to learn from?

Right now those 3555's are at 29" and shooting well with only 100 grains up front. As my form improves, I think then the higher speeds would be possibly more beneficial. Right now, one of the best things for me has been to be able to see the arc of my arrow, and I don't have much with these real light arrows.

Thanks for any observations and let me know if I am totally off base.

Tim