Hybrid

[Hill Hunter]

I have read a lot about Hybred Longbows and my courisity is peaked.
What makes it a hybred, is it limb design or limb material, or handle, or a combination of the above?

can you give me the name of a few Hybred Longbows?

Thanks; Hill

sorry, i had to change the title of this thread, the misspelling was getting to me!

[fireball31]

A hybrid longbow seems to encompass a large portion of the longbows out their.  Some believe that a longbow with any reflex-deflex is considered a hybrid. I believe that anything that does not have a classic D-shape when strung is a hybrid.(i.e. black swan, GN fireball, shrew)  They can have anything from a straight grip to a heavy recurve riser.

[Jeremy]

It's just a new name given to a bow style that's been around for a very, very long time.

Heavily deflexed coming off the riser with lots of reflex in the limbs - the string does not touch the limbs except at the string nocks.

Generally they'll have a higher wrist grip, but not necessarily.  The limb profile is the defining characteristic.  

Also called a reflex/deflex (r/d) longbow, semi-recurve, or non-contact recurve.

Lots of bowyers are making the hybrid longbows.  There's a Rose Oak Companion on my rack right now.

[JRY309]

For me I call a hybrid a longbow with highly R/D limbs and a recurve type grip.But sure there are alot of definitions.

[thunder1]

Most of the hybrid longbows I've seen,also seem to have a shorter bow length.

[George D. Stout]

Hybrid, not Hybred, indicates it is a mixture of at least two different things.  Mostly, you could say all three piece longbows are hybrids.  Limbs that are severly reflexed, and almost recurved, are hybrids.

[Rob DiStefano]

hybrids are longbows with both reflexed limbs and deflexed risers (r/d).

some are aggressive r/d and will show the reflex at the limb tips when braced.

some are mild r/d and will have that classic "D braced shape.

[LBR]

There are cave drawings (approx. 4,000 year old, IIRC) that depict deflex/reflex longbows, so........seems to me that "hybrid" is just a fairly new name given to a VERY old design.  I saved the link to the picture somewhere.  Don Stokes found it for me, Mr. Dan Quillian told me about it years ago.  Hey Don--did you save that link?

[Rob DiStefano]

yeah chad, everything old is new again.  :D

[Curveman]

Maybe there will be a movement in this country at some point toward following the European rules that are applied in most tournaments over there. Our "longbows" for example, although "D" shaped when strung, since they have a shelf, are called "American Flatbows." The bow must be shot off the hand and a certain length I believe to be called a "longbow" and shoot in that class.

There seems to be at least several definitions over here for what is still considered a longbow or what needs to be designated a "hybrid." Who's to say who's right or that we even need a rule about it? For ME however, I don't call any of my bows longbows unless they have a "D" shape when strung, a "Howard Hill"/traditional handle, and are not cut past center. Anything toward a recurve from there is a hybrid to me until it is actually a recurve-perhaps the most extreme end on that continuum of hybrids is a Bob Lee "longbow" which I would never call a longbow except where I needed to be polite.    :D   (Nice bow by the way, I am only referring to the designation). Truthfully, I like most longbows, many hybrids and most recurves. I'm not trying to start an argument though as I readily admit that that is my own idiosyncratic definition that I have ZERO insistence that anyone subscribe to!    

[Rob DiStefano]

imo, if the string loops only touch the nock loops, it's a "longbow".  that's the defining, easy to understand and accomplish, test.  the buck stops there, and i believe rightly so.  any other method of proofing a longbow will have significant loopholes.

i've had lots of sparring bouts with the ifaa over their definition of "longbow".  their elite, purist attitude sez the braced bow must conform to the "D" shape and they go into a fair amount of geometry to prove their methodology.  their idea of a "longbow" is the elb, or hill style.  fine and dandy, i'm on board with that!  HOWEVER, they DO NOT disallow "stealth" longbows from their competitions and more than once a 21st century edge has won the world titles.  when unbraced, the edge is one heckuva snake shaped, very aggressive hybrid longbow.

as chad mentions above, "traditionally" there have been r/d longbows around for millenniums.

[Hill Hunter]

Thanks guys; I has been reading a lot about their preformance and was interested, I have also read about several that are much shorter than my recurves or longbow.
so one more question, does a long bow,or "hybred" design allow a shorter bow without finger pinch ? or is the finger pinch just tolerated to shoot a shorter bow?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Hill Hunter:
Thanks guys; I has been reading a lot about their preformance and was interested, I have also read about several that are much shorter than my recurves or longbow.
so one more question, does a long bow,or "hybred" design allow a shorter bow without finger pinch ? or is the finger pinch just tolerated to shoot a shorter bow?

dude, ya gotta stop typing 'hybred', it's HYBRID.  sorry, rant over.

the way most short length bows work is through a very VERY pronounced riser deflex, which in turn promotes a very high brace height.  the higher brace height will shorten the power stroke and lessen finger pinch, both to some degree.  it's all a compromise, you don't get somethin' fer nothin'.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Curveman,

I understand where you're coming from. We've certainly seen the boundries of what constitutes a "longbow" expanded quite a bit in the past few years.

According to some definitions, a Hoyt FITA riser (Aerotech, whatever) with a plunger, elevated rest, short stabilizer and ILF longbow limbs would be considered a longbow. In other instances, the bow must be shot off the shelf, no stabilizers, and have a D shape when braced.

Personally, to me what does or does not constitute a longbow is only relevant if you're in a particular venue that has a set definition (IBO, IFAA, etc.). In that case, it comes down to any other such equipment rule: follow it or go elsewhere. Aside from that, I think it's really irrelevant.

[Rob DiStefano]

jason nailed it - don't matter whatcha call "it" as long as "it" works for ya, and perhaps if yer allowed to use "it" in someone's archery game.

the classic definition of a trad longbow is the elb or hill style.  straight limbs with maybe a tad of relex near the limb tip ends.

the word 'hybrid' simply categorizes longbows (definition: string loops only touching bow limb nocks), that deviate from the classic approach, typically with added riser deflex.  when you compare unbraced straight and hybrid longbows, the hybrid is the snake.  

all hybrids will have the snakey look when unbraced, but some are 'stealth' longbows in that they assume the classic 'D' shape when braced.  i call them 'stealth hybrids' because guys have been using them to win ifaa tournaments, even though the ifaa rules specify 'classic, straight elb style longbows'.  make no mistake, a stealth longbow has a clear technical advantage over any classic hill style straight longbow.

[Irish Archer]

I really would not think that it is irrelevant. I'd be willing to bet that many more "flexed" bows are made and sold each year than there are Hill-style bows.

There's a reason people talk about hand shock. Is that not correct?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Irish Archer:
I really would not think that it is irrelevant.....

what is it that's not irrelevant?

[ishoot4thrills]

So, Rob, my Beeler is a hybrid with a reflex/REflex style instead of a reflex/DEflex, because the riser is curved towards the shooter instead of away, correct?

Does this type of bow increase performance compared to the heavily DEflexed riser?

 

[Rob DiStefano]

doug, your bow is an aggressive r/d with the grip pulled back and the limbs pushed forward.  unbraced it probably looks more like a recurve.   :D

in terms of performance, i dunno - the design certainly suggests it'd smoke a hill longbow of comparable holding weight.  

imo, fast bows don't necessarily mean they have a fair amount of inherent stability to control all that dissipated energy.  i'd much rather shoot a bow that had stability over speed.

[ishoot4thrills]

No problem with stability here.

But, how can this be a r/d bow when it has a reflex riser? Wouldn't it be a "r/r"?