? for the skinny string experts

[KHALVERSON]

a fella i work with recently commented as to how quite my hoyt gamemaster was and asked what i had done to get that noisey (%^$#$ quiet
i told him that i had made a skinny  ts-1 string for it
he then asked if the same princibles would work with b-50 dacron for the vintage bows he has
so i thought i would ask and see what the consensus was
thanks in advance
kevin

[A.S.]

I'm no expert, but B50 has about 1/2 the strength of the modern materials...so I'd be careful.

[Deadbolt]

ive used a skinny 6strand d97 with the loops padded out on my old tigercat with no ill affects.

[Jesse Peltan]

Use a skinny padded 8125 or d97 on any bow. I wouldn't go with ts-1 though.  6 strands of 8125 is good up to a 73# bow. 4 is good up to a 49# bow 3 is good up to a 37# bow. If you pad to 14-16 strands in the loops an 8125 can be used on pretty much any bow. Don't go skinny with dacron B-50 and b-500 have only 37.6% the strength of 8125 and they are thicker so they're not great candidates for skinny strings.  Now when using 8125 and old bows don't go higher than my recommendations in strand count because the low strand count makes the string act more like b-50 on the limbs but doesn't have the creep that b-50 has.  The skinny 8125 will also reduce vibration in the limbs and riser and will actually be easier on the bow.  What are the draw weights of the bows? Do you make 2 or 3 bundle strings?

[KHALVERSON]

thanks guys
jesse i make 2 bundle strings and the bows my coworker has are 40 @ 50# @ 28 and he draws 29

kevin

[JRY309]

I have made quite a few skinny strings with low stretch materials like D97,450+ and 8125.But with dacron I see no advantage with a skinny dacron string,not strng enough.I use 14 strands up to 65# and 12 strands for under 50#.

[George D. Stout]

I use skinny (six strand) on some vintage bows and they seem to be as bow friendly as dacron, as long as the loops are padded.  Actually there is much less vibration for the bow limbs to cope with.

[Bjorn]

Skinny Dacron would creep too much and is not strong enough. Like George and others have experienced a skinny D97 (or similar) string with padded loops works great on my vintage bows too. I'm not recommending anything here just reporting my own results.
I'm not to the point yet where any non dacron string is going on any of my '59 Kodiaks but the test bows show no ill effects and shoot very nicely.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
Skinny Dacron would creep too much and is not strong enough. ...

+1    

hmpe fibers only, for skinny strings.

[Jesse Peltan]

KHALVERSON I'd make a 4strand padded to 14 for the 40# bow and a 6strand padded to 14 for the 50# bow.  The lighter one should be about 42-43# at his draw and the heavier one should be about 52-53#.  The 4strand is good up to a 49# bow so it should work perfectly. The 6 strand will work fine for 52-53. It's good up to 73# so it's a little overkill but it will be fine.  Please give us an update on performance changes in the bows speed, noise, handshock, etc.  The bows will have a lot less vibration but he will need to retune them.  You can only see the real benefits when the bows are tuned for the new strings.

[Rob DiStefano]

jesse, you talkin bout dacron or hmpe 4 and 6 strand strings???

[bearbowman]

Those skinny D-97 will shoot on an old bow but padded loops or not you are gonna rattle those old bows apart. The real issue was the glues used back in the day. They were nothing like the glues today.
Sure if you pad the loops really well the tips should be fine but that is not the real issue with the low stretch string. Why do you think Bob Lee fought tooth and nail before they finally went to FF strings? Because the whole world was using them and they had to bite the bullet. 4 or 5 years ago Bob Lee would not warrant a bow that had FF on it.

[Jesse Peltan]

Rob I'm talking about Hmpe. Specifically 8125. 4 strands of dacron could be used on bows under 20# in draw weight only.  A padded skinny 8125 will actually be easier on an old because it will have less vibration than a dacron string therefore putting less stress on the glue joints.  A skinny padded 8125 will put no more stress on the tips than a dacron.  It'd be interesting to see the difference in stress cracks in a bow using a good fastflight vs a dacron string in the course of 30-40 years.  I suspect the decrease in vibration from using 8125 would decrease the delamination rate and decrease the number of stress cracks.

[AALLFAB]

I am definitely a string know nothing but i thought the problem is the sudden instant stop of the limb travel with low stretch which lends to extreme instant high level shock. Dacron is like a rubber band and disperses some of that instantaneous shock and may even convert some of it to a little vibration. I didnt know a little vibration was bad for a bow. That pop noise of a ff string that makes them more noisey is when that instant force is released on the bow. Jim

[James on laptop]

As long as the tips are in good shape I just use d-97 on everything.I suspect most of the mishaps with modern strings on old bows is due more to the crappy way many of the string grooves were cut on them more than the string materials.Selfbows and all wood bows never have issues with modern skinny strings and I don't thing most any bow will if it does not have issues to start with.I don't own any bows that will ever be shot with a b-50 string.I think it is worse for a bow than the newer strings myself the way they add so much vibration and shock to a bow.It can't be good for one.jmho

[George D. Stout]

Steve....no one has really studied that aspect of it, so I'm not too sure of that "rattle those old bows apart" thing.  Anyone can say what they want about that, but the fact is, it hasn't been studied.  That's why I'm doing it on some old bows. No 59' Bears by the way.

From what I see, there is less shock from a skinny string of 450+, than there is from from a sixteen strand dacron....going on feel now.  The bow is also quieter and more dead in the hand with the skinny 450.

I'm not saying for anyone to put them on vintage bows, but since no one will take up the challenge of trying it, then I suppose I have to.
I'm not buying the "old glue isn't as good thing."   Shock is shock, vibration is vibration, and the old linen strings were about as no stretch as any modern material.

I've now shot my old Shakespeare at least 2000 shots with the skinny 450+, and I'm betting I'll get another times that many more shots.  I have a 61 Polar that has a TS-1 string on it, and it has more than 500 shots through it, and also is less shocky on the shot.

You know maybe down the road, the old Shakespeare will break, but it isn't showing any signs, and from what I'm seeing, it is having to endure less vibration than it did with a 14 strand dacron, endless loop.  Go figure.

I'm certainly not an expert, and was also one of those guys who swore by the B50 only theory for old bows.    Bottom line is you guys need to do what you do and not compromise your bows if you think you will by shooting modern strings on them.  As for me, I'm not convinced, so I'll keep plugging along and see if I get an en-masse failure from using the strings.  I don't know at this time, but I have a gut feeling these old bows will hold up just fine.  

I'll keep you posted if I do have a failure....I'm not afraid to pass that along if it happens 8^).  We will see, for as they say, "nothing ventured....nothing gained."

[FlintRiverKen]

String shoulder rotator messed up last summer; can't pull the 55# widow so started experimenting with my old 45# Shakespeare X12 I got 30 years ago. Had it shootin half decent but alot of tinkering to find the sweet spot with a B50 string.

Right before Christmas I got the X12 an 8 strand D97 from SBD folks. What a fine string! Heavily padded loops tapering smoothly to the skinny.

WOW! Not so finicky about brace ht, more quiet that ever- super quiet, arrow trajectory obviously much flatter, and arrows sinking much deeper into the target. A totally different bow.
I got a Chrony for Christmas so plan to weigh both strings and compare speed and report back.

[Jesse Peltan]

At 45# you could use a 4strand 8125 padded to 16.  You'd see another increase in performance.  BTW a 4strand 8125 is good up to a 49-50# bow

[FlintRiverKen]

Jesse I want to build strings but not there yet. Anyplace a guy could buy one like you're describing? I think the SBD folks will build one with what strands you request.

Definitely want one for the 40# i am re-finishing.

[artifaker1]

What are you using for padding on those really skinny strings Jesse? I've been using 8125 for the padding on my 10 strand 8125 string (padded to 20 strands of 8125) but I don't think the loops come out big enough for the Dacron bows. I also tried some really outrageous levels of padding but it started to get a little tricky twisting the loops. I was thinking of slipping something over the loop before I close it.