Brass Insert vs Heavier Point

[spike buck]

Does anyone have any experience testing and noticing a difference, if any, between using a brass insert and lighter point vs a standard alum insert and a heavier point? If the total weight up front is equal with both set-ups will there be any spine changes, penetration difference, etc? Just curious and any feedback is appreciated.

[KentuckyTJ]

James yes I switch over two years ago to a thinner diameter lighter broadhead with extra weight behind it. I now use a 100 grain brass insert and a 100 grain broadhead. Great combo for me. My bows are right around 50 lbs and the lighter setups are perfect for me. I've shot many whitetails with this smaller diameter 100 grain head now and I can definitely tell I get better penetration from less drag.

   

[Bill Kissner]

The 100 grain insert which is longer will in effect stiffen the spine because of the extra length. It is the same as cutting the shaft equal to the length of the insert.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Putting all the weight forward weakens the spine, moving it further back stiffens it, plus the glue in length of the shaft has a small effect as mentioned above.  The real reason to use brass or steel inserts in my opinion is how tough they are.  Aluminum inserts can bend or fail if a heavy bone is hit, or a steep angle shot on a bone happens.  The brass inserts are tough enough to survive these hits for good penetration.

[xtrema312]

A lot of good advice has been posted.  I test them all because if find a significant difference.  I love the brass inserts for the reasons stated.  I don't foot my arrows, and I have yet to trash the front of an arrow with a brass insert. I have snapped them off an inch or more past the insert on rock hits, but never smashed the insert into the shaft.  The brass ones have more rim width than aluminum.  I also find insert length effects the spine.  I factor that in when looking at combo's using 50 vs. 100 gr. brass inserts.

[T Folts]

I think what you are asking if shifting the weight forward using a heavier tip versus shifting the weight back using a brass weight insert is there going to be a difference? My answer is in therory yes (but) will you notice I doubt it. Ive  done it both ways and I dont but someone who shoots much better may or if you set your bow up on a shooting machine you may see a  difference. IMO

Terry

[spike buck]

Thanks for the all the replies. As always, great info from you guys!

[kybowman]

Spike, great topic. I have been contemplating brass inserts for quite some time.

Thanks for the info TJ!! You explained it perfectly!!!!  

Another option to hunt with my lower draw weight bows. 60lbs can get to be a bear sometimes for an old man, if you know what I mean.  8^)

[Greg Skinner]

My experience verifies as said above that the length of the brass insert adds to the stiffness of the spine, so you can't just do a straight across substitution equal grains for equal grains without compensating for arrow length a little bit.  I have also noticed that it seems as though a longer broadhead of same grain weight acts to lessen the spine slightly.  It probably shows up more if your tuning is borderline because I can't usually see a difference in 20 grains of point variation.

[Steelhead]

I prefer to go with the brass inserts as well vs bumping up the point weight when using an aluminum insert.Cost a few more bucks.But I feel its worth it to use the brass.Just Plain stronger at the business end of the arrow

[Dan White]

Good Topic, I keep learning

[Bush]

I prefer a heavier point, because the long brass inserts stiffen the spine, which makes it more complicated to get my arrows to fly straight.  

Also, the heavier broadheads can be made much more solid and sturdy than the light ones.  The 100 grain phantoms are much more flimsy than the 200 grain phantoms.

[Bush]

What I meant about the stiffening of the spine is that, since the brass doesn't flex, it makes the first 2" or so of the shaft not flex, which defeats the purpose a little bit of adding weight upfront.

A 100 grain head with a 100 grain insert will have a higher spine than a 200 grain head.

[KentuckyTJ]

I don't agree you are stiffening the spine when adding the longer brass insert in this case. We are talking about less that a 1/4" in length difference. Also the brass insert weighs much more than the aluminum regular insert. And we all know when you add weight to the point that weakens spine. The regular insert weighs 20 grains and the brass one we know is 100. So were adding 80 grains up front.

So with that said lets say before he was shooting a 160 grain head with a 20 grain alumimun insert. Thats a 180 grains total.  Now if he went to a 125 grain head and a 100 grain brass insert he has 225 total grains up front.

So the difference between the two setups is 45 grains heavier and with this increase in weight I believe it would offset the spine stiffening of the slightly longer insert.

[Rob DiStefano]

i don't have any arrows with foc's lower than 20%.  some use alum inserts and very heavy points, some with 100gr brass inserts and heavy points, some with 100gr brass inserts, heavy points and internal weighted footings.

none fly noticeably different, for me.

personally, for my hunting arrows, i just want to load the front end as much as possible for both high efoc and gpp, to that the hunting arrows are near or above 30% efoc.  again, that's what works for me.

[skarcher]

I just finished bare shafting both configurations. For me, at 20 yds, I could not see a difference between heavy inserts/light tips or standard inserts/heavy tips. They all flew to the same place. The reason I wanted to try it is because I have some 100 gr stingers left over from my abandoned compound days and was hoping I could use them. Seems to be no problem at all.

[eddings220]

I actually ordered some 100 gr brass inserts and matched them with 125 gr heads after reading a topic on Ky TJ's 09 season, wow, what a difference it made in some cheap carbon arrows that I had.  The flight of the arrow improved a great deal.

[Guru]

I've been messing with the same kind of situation for my Pig Gig arrows...

 Same length arrows...both with about 300 grs up front...

 One had a reg. insert-about 15grs...125 steel adapter....and 160 gr. point=  300grains

 Other has a 50gr brass insert...125 steel adapter...125 point=  300grains

So far with the shooting I've done with the bare shafts, I could not see a noticeable difference with my shooting ability.

Tomorrow I will shoot fletched arrows with Bh's, so we'll see then about the outcome.

But I suspect that they'll be right with the others....

[WildmanSC]

The brass inserts provides more support for the front ends of the arrows, carbon or aluminum, IMHO.

Bill

[onewhohasfun]

There will not be any alum. on the business end of my hunting arrows. Too wimpy.