it's time for a test of broad head sharp vs razor sharp

[Earl E. Nov...mber]

One test I do, is to take a tissue, set my coffee cup on one side near the edge of the table, and hold the other side with my hand and stretch it as tight as I can without moving the cup.
Then but a broadhead with an arrow on the tissue point down.
I want the head to slice a hole equal to the broadhead with out help and only the weight of the arrow pushing it through.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I'm sure that a razor head vs a filed head is technically sharper. What I know FOR SURE is that heads I file cause massive bleeding and a quick death. And I can carry a file in my pocket.

If I can't get a head scary with just a file, I won't use it.

[Guru]

Originally posted by Molson:
I think you're going to find out what a broadhead does to a pumpkin filled with red water or a slab of ballistic gel and it isn't going to tell you anything about what the same head will do on a living, breathing, moving animal.      

I gotta agree with that    

[robtattoo]

While I whole-heartedly agree that you won't see any real-world benefeits to shooting a pumpkin filled with 'blood', I must admit, I'm giggling lik a 3 year old at the thought of watching the video!
Come on, who wouldn't wanna see that!?! There's nothing more entertaining (To my mind, which admittedly probably tells you a lot about my mind!) than watching something that goes 'POOF', 'BOOM', or 'SPLAT' when shot  

[J. Cook]

The broadhead debates and tests are just that...they are tests.  There are just far too many variable when hunting.  I think most of us can agree (including myself) that our experiences in the field with various heads all show different results.  My first trad deer was a perfect shot...broadside, 27 yards, center punched both lungs with a clean pass through.  Shaving sharp 2 blade head.  Didn't put a single drop of blood on the ground!!!!  Not one.  Luckily I saw the deer fall.  For that reason alone, I shoot 3 or 4 blade heads now.  But others have "highway" blood trails with 2-blades.  I've also shot deer with less-than-perfect broadheads and had massive holes and bleeding.  It's almost a "crap shoot" when your out there.  So I concentrate of just making whatever equipment I have be in the best condition possible.  

I do agree with Rob though...I would love to see the pumpkin and red water test!!!!  

[Matt_Potter]

Jack you are dating your self - that thread is long - long dead and in a class all by itself.

[ChuckC]

volunteer to run a razor sharp blade across your left arm and a file sharpened blade across your right, then keep track of
1) how deeply they cut
2) how cleanly they cut (or  how much damage
     they created
3) how freely they bled
4) how long they bled freely

Without a live organism being tested upon, I can't imagine any testing being really legitimate.  

You can poke a dull stick thru a pumpkin full of water and get some great bleeding.  In fact,  a dull stick would make for a larger hole than that created by a sharp point, and drain it faster.. try blunts and see what I mean.
ChuckC

[Old York]

For a ballistic medium, I'll send you my mother-in-law's 'Meat Loaf Supreme' and all the 'Christmas Delight' fruitcake you want.

Free shipping too.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Originally posted by KSdan:
Take a broadhead with a file/rough edge and run it across your finger.

Take a scary sharp Silver Flame and run it across your finger (just be ready to go to a Dr.)        

Experiment complete.

Exactly!

[Mudd]

Even I remember the "Dead Cow" thread and that was like... well Moby Dick was still in a fish bowl back then..lol

[lpcjon2]

I have seen many suicide victims with both razor cuts on the wrist and ones done with regular kitchen knives I know exactly what each does,Problem is that I don't get to see how long it takes for them to bleed out.Now I have spoke with the forensic pathologist that I work with and they state that the ragged cut will not clot as fast as the scalpel cut,With the right paper work I may be able to do this test with cadavers...LOL

[pdk25]

Next time you speak to your forensic pathologist, would you ask him to cite his references as to why ragged cuts don't clot as fast as scalpel cuts.  Tests on cadavers are not likely to simulate live, moving animals IMHO.

[faustus]

Here an excerpt from "Hunting with the Bow and Arrow" by Saxton Pope. I guess that is the conclusion from a hundred years ago ... ;-) they preferred filing sharp over razor sharp ...

“The question of the cutting qualities of the obsidian head as compared to those of the
sharpened steel head, was answered in the following experiment:

A box was so constructed that two opposite sides were formed by fresh deer skin tacked in place. The interior of the box was filled with bovine liver. This represented animal tissue minus the bones.

At a distance of ten yards I discharged an obsidian-pointed arrow and a steel-pointed arrow from a weak bow. The two missiles were alike in size, weight, and feathering, in fact, were made by Ishi, only one had the native head and the other his modern substitute. Upon repeated trials, the steel-headed arrow uniformly penetrated a distance of twenty-two inches from the front surface of the box, while the obsidian uniformly penetrated thirty inches, or eight inches farther, approximately 25 per cent better penetration. This advantage is undoubtedly due to the concoidal edge of the flaked glass operating upon the same principle that fluted-edged bread and bandage knives cut better than ordinary knives.

In the same way we discovered that steel broad-heads sharpened by filing have a better meatcutting edge than when ground on a stone.”

[Caleb the bow breaker]

is it just me or is this one of those classic argument

2 blade v. three blade
wood v. carbon
skinny string v. "normal" string
three fletch v. four fletch
ford v. chevy

That no matter what data is collected or expert is consulted or what anecdotal story is relayed that most peoples minds are already made up and what is boils down too is this

Hunting season is over and everybody has cabin fever and is just looking for a fight.

LOL

Caleb

[Over&Under]

Originally posted by robtattoo:
While I whole-heartedly agree that you won't see any real-world benefeits to shooting a pumpkin filled with 'blood', I must admit, I'm giggling lik a 3 year old at the thought of watching the video!
Come on, who wouldn't wanna see that!?! There's nothing more entertaining (To my mind, which admittedly probably tells you a lot about my mind!) than watching something that goes 'POOF', 'BOOM', or 'SPLAT' when shot    

I gotta go with Rob on this one...I could not get that picture out of my mind either.  No pumpkins available this time of year or I would give it a try!

[NorthernCaliforniaHunter]

po-tah-to,  po-tay-to...

[lpcjon2]

This is a definition of the two types of wounds caused by the two types of broad heads from Health guidance.
Incisions(scalpel sharp)

Incised wounds, or cuts (Fig. 2), in body tissues are commonly caused by knives, metal edges, broken glass, or other sharp objects. The degree of bleeding depends on the depth and extent of a cut. Deep cuts may involve blood vessels and may cause extensive bleeding. They may also damage muscles, tendons, and nerves.

Lacerations(file sharp)

Lacerations (Fig. 3) are jagged, irregular, or blunt breaks or tears in the soft tissues. Bleeding may be rapid and extensive. The destruction of tissue is greater in lacerations than in cuts. The deep contamination of wounds that result from accidents involving moving parts of machinery increases the chances of later infection.
 I will have cited documentation when I go to work on Friday.  

[ChuckC]

Are we trying to kill something cleanly or do maximum damage ?  If I screw up and hit one such taht it is not mortal.. ie a leg hit or neck or some such, wouldn't a nice clean cut ultimately heal up better with less damage, scaring etc for the critter ?

I was trained that a cut caused by a sharp blade will cause less tissue damage, causing less physiologic reaction that ends in clotting ( a whole series of events takes place for a clot to form) than compared to a dull or ragged instrument, which damages more tissue and does cause this physiologic reaction, hence, quicker clotting.

The clean slice will shut easier, and heal over easier, however we are talking a slice here, not a gaping hole in your side that is moving apart as you run.

Both will cut, suit yourself on what you wish to use.  Both have been used for quite some time.  

I am pretty certain that 50 years ago very few of our predecessors used KME sharpeners and diamond hones to sharpen their broadheads, and in fact I think I have seen enough to know that many never ever even tried to sharpen up the head they used.

As long as the design and metal of the head will hold up to it, I believe sharper is better than not so much sharp (including file sharpened ).

More fun.  extend this discussion to double vs single bevel sharpness.  Can you get one sharper than the other ?  Does it matter ?
ChuckC

[pdk25]

It looks like this would be as close as you could come to an applicable study, if the amount of bleeding would have just been quantified.

  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=083981;p=4

[lpcjon2]

pdk25 we should also do platelet counts and test protein and iron content along with about 15 other different things which all add to the clotting of blood. Im really close to just giving this one up.spent more time on this than I did hunting this week...LOL