A New Product Hits The Market

[Kenneth]

Rob, that's a pretty slick idea!  I like the thought of an internal footing that adds weight and strength to the business end of the shaft.  Sign me up for a order of 100 please.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Rob, there are at least a couple of folks in the industry looking at that; an insert/tapering IF combination.

Richie, Yes, getting the weight as far forward as possible is an advantage in boosting FOC, but don't hold your breath for a 5" long BH! Right now I'd settle to get a decent single-bevel glue on weighing 250 to 300 grains!

Ed

[J-dog]

Love the looks of it Dr. Ed, think they could make the tail end a little longer, of steel and have the internal footing and all? Like most products hopefully this develops into more.

J

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

J, for the very best results you wouldn't want the IF to be of a non-flexing material, like steel. As well as being progressively tapered the IF needs to have also be capable of a graduated degree of flex. This is critical for maximum strength on angular impacts.

There's some experimentation going on by at least a couple of folks to find a material suitable for an IF that, hopefully, can be either attached to an insert or supplied as a unit with an insert. It's not an easy task to accomplish, but I hope they come up with the right material and 'how to' to solve the problems encountered with the first few of their prototypes tested.

Ed

[tradtusker]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
interesting, viable, but no cigar for me.

i want a steel INSERT, so that i can use screw-in points - broadheads, judos, field points.  a nice added touch might be a variable weight system that screws in at the rear, as found today.  

better yet, an insert that's really long with a tapered or parallel inner wall to act as a shaft footing strengthener at that critical area of the arrow.

i second that Rob    

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Dr. Ed Ashby:
J, for the very best results you wouldn't want the IF to be of a non-flexing material, like steel. As well as being progressively tapered the IF needs to have also be capable of a graduated degree of flex. This is critical for maximum strength on angular impacts.

...

yes, i agree with the desire for some flexibility behind the insert, which is why i bring up the concept of a longish, hollow tapered aft section the extended hollow wall of such an insert.

doesn't hafta be tapered, either - it could a graduated step.  

or, perhaps just take an existing insert and add a 4" or so 'tail' of weight tube.

[Jim Wright]

With respects to Dr. Ashby and just for info's sake, while never "on the market" I have had for well over a year the same basic product for my Beman MFX shafts that my bowyer Dan Toelke designed and had manufactured. These Chrome Steel inserts have a short ferule, weigh 105 grains and when the hollow end of the ferule is tapped full of soft lead wire, they weigh 125 grs. There is 1 3/16" of steel insert that goes into the shaft, a very strong set-up making the possibilities with different weight broadheads and also different weight brass or cut-off sections of steel inserts added behind that 1 3/16" almost endless. While I like the looks of this product and like to shoot a lot of weight up front in my carbons, sometimes it is hard to find a truly new product. As a note, I cannot recall why Dan did not put his inserts on the market, it may have been the introduction of the brass glue-in/glue-on inserts around that time but regardless these steel inserts certainly seem to offer obvious advantages.

[artifaker1]

I know I have bent several 100 grain brass inserts. But usually only after a contact with steel. Steel inserts would be better.
Also the steel in broadheads could be improved dramatically, with San Mai (sandwiched) or something like that. I'm surprised at how far behind that is from say, knife making. CPM3 scored the highest strength ever in the pendulum test on hardened steel (at 59 rockwell). As far as cost, well were already paying some big prices for broadheads.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Rob, you're right about the IF design. The initial IF's I worked up were parallel outside, with a solid forward section and a rear-section internal cavity that was first stepped up to a larger diameter cavity and then conically internally tapered on the rear 1/3. It worked well, but was much, much more difficult to make (by hand) than the externally tapered configuration. Both worked equally well. I also tried some that were solid and parallel (at shaft ID) at the front, then stepped down in diameter, then stepped down again.

All these designs have been tried in a number of different materials, even to some pretty exotic materials used in the space program. There's a fair amount of behind the scenes work still going on with the IF's (and one piece or combined material one piece IF/inserts). I just hope we will get there before I'm too old to bowhunt!    

Ed

[buckster]

Ritchie,

Pretty cool, all you need to do is add an ounce of extra virgin olive oil and you are done!
 

[Richie Nell]

Buckmeister,
Yea I use that instead of hot melt.

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

For what it's worth, this thread has prompred at least one more individual to begin looking at a viable, factory made IF/insert. Get enough folks looking and sooner or later someone is going to come up with one that is both practical and economically viable to manufacture!    

Ed

[Apex Predator]

Word from Kustom King is that the 1.25" wide model is being discontinued already!  I just ordered two three packs.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

1.25" wide model?

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

:eek:   Me too, Jason!   :confused:

Ed

[Apex Predator]

Yeah, I posted on the wrong thread.  Sorry guys!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

No problem. I buy my adapters from Kustom King and wanted to know if I need to stock up again.