Carbon Express Heritage

[huntin_sparty]

Howdy all I have been bowhunting with training wheels for years. But am new to traditional and just dove in with a used longbow purchase and new recurve.  Anyhow looking at getting some arrows for traditional and have used Carbon Express for years.  I used the stu miller calculator and had questions on the following:

What does the insert weigh on CE is 14 a good #?

What does the nock end weight on CE is 11 a good #?

Can you add weights to the nock end of the CE Heritage?

My bows are 46-50lbs and was trying to get a 500gr arrow and need to have 155 grains up front 125 plus 30 insert and 40 grains in the back.  At 29.5 long this set up is almost perfect 64.5 vs 64.6.

Is this arrow doable with the Heritage 150 or will I not be able to add to the nock weight?

Thanks for any help or anyone who has a similar set up.  Love the site!  Got a lot of good info already.

[Earl Jeff]

The insert and nock weight are good. but I wouldn't put any weight on the back of the arrow stick all your weight on the front end try some brass inserts.

[JoeM]

I shoot CX 150's out of a 53# recurve I have a 125 grain BH with a 100 grain insert, arrows are about 29" if I remember correctly.  This set up with 3 four inch feathers gives me a 560 grain arrow.

[Chris Shelton]

I have shot them before, didnt care for them much.  The inserts kept popin out.  I would say that you dont want to put weight in the back.  Like said above put it up front, FOC increases penetration and improves arrow flight!  Welcome to the beautiful world of archery without trainin wheels!

[huntin_sparty]

Thanks guys.  
So there is no way to add weight to the nock end.

Is the FOC on traditional further back.  I thought 9% on my arrows for my bow with training wheels was a good spot.  I see alot of posts with 12-18% range being good?


Also is the length on stu miller the arrow itself or 28.5 plus 1 inch for the broadhead?  I think just arrow but wanted to check.

[MSwickard]

Ideally,

You'd like to have the FOC 15%+.

The length is BOP (back of point).  So measure from nock groove to BOP.  So you do pick up 3/8 or so inches to the length from the cut shaft due to the nock.

[Earl Jeff]

I believe Gold tip makes brass inserts for the nock end but I can't see any advantage for useing them.

[SactoBowman]

You can use GT inserts at the front or any .247 diameter inserts in the CE's.  I have GT 20 grain and 50 grain inserts as part of a tuning kit I bought from Black Widow.

Make sure you have the correct number for the center cut calculation.  I had mine wrong and emailed Stu Miller and he gave me the correct number.  That will change your equation.

I also shoot CE 150's and the insert weight for mine is 11 grns and the nock is 8 grns.

Have fun and good luck!

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by SactoBowman:


Make sure you have the correct number for the center cut calculation.  I had mine wrong and emailed Stu Miller and he gave me the correct number.  That will change your equation.


Have fun and good luck!

I was using -1/8, figuring -3/16 is the bow + 1/16 pad equals -1/8.  Does that sound like good logic.  

Thanks for all the help!

[JimmyC]

**This would be a general reference only as your situation will differ** ,

but I draw a bit over 28" and shoot 30 1/4" Heritage 150's with 250 grain points (about 615 grains total)and standard factory inserts/nocks out of:

1) Pittsley Predator that is 46# @ 28 using a dacron string

2) Great Northern Critter Gitter that is about 48# at 28" using a 450+ string.

I like to keep things as simple as possible and that is how these bows tuned (bareshaft planning method) out for me.  If I were you I'd just take a 30" to 31" CE Heritage arrow and try and get it tune by simply adjusting point weight.

[cacciatore]

Andrew,here we speak for FOC and most of us want all the weigh forward like race cars.Read the threads up here a lot of knowledge and some fisic advantages.Less mats anyway than with the wheels and when they are tuned they stay tuned.

[SactoBowman]

Originally posted by huntin_sparty:
 

Originally posted by SactoBowman:


Make sure you have the correct number for the center cut calculation.  I had mine wrong and emailed Stu Miller and he gave me the correct number.  That will change your equation.


Have fun and good luck!

I was using -1/8, figuring -3/16 is the bow + 1/16 pad equals -1/8.  Does that sound like good logic.  

Thanks for all the help! [/b]

Yeah sounds about right.  Stu did mention that he had some guys build it to -1/16 so that they could use a weaker spine.  But that's a little more tinkering than I want to do.

[MSwickard]

I was using -1/8, figuring -3/16 is the bow + 1/16 pad equals -1/8. Does that sound like good logic

It's best to measure your center shot +/-, rather than assuming what it is.

[NDTerminator]

You can't assume your centershot measurement as a difference of 1/16" plus or minus can make a huge difference in the spine you need.  In your case, this will dictate whether you can get close with a 150 or if you need a 250. I won't even detail what my arrow set up is as w/o knowing your centershot, it could be greatly over or under spined for your bow.

Like-wise guessing at your insert and nock end is pretty much a waste of time.

I recommend you spend about $20 on a small digital scale...

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by NDTerminator:

I recommend you spend about $20 on a small digital scale...

Thanks for the input.  I do have a digital scale.  What I dont have in my hands is the bow it wont arrive for 3 more weeks.  From the website they say the bow has "a full 4 inch sight window cut 3/16 of an inch past center" so I wasnt pulling that number out of thin air.  I dont have the arrows, nocks or inserts either to actually weight I wanted to guesstimate to see if these were close enough before buying anything.  Sounds like what I am trying to do wont work and trad setups are more finnicky and I will need to actually buy all the stuff and shoot em to see how they fly?

[NDTerminator]

Put your back hair down, pard.  Sounded like you were doing a lot of guessing, that's all...

Really not much you can do until you have your bow in hand and the rest method you will use on it. Then you measure your center cut.  A bow cut to -3/16 won't be once you put on a strike plate or rug, or stick an elevated rest on the sight window wall.

Bows that launch the arrow from 0 center cut or less require heavier spine than those with a + center cut launch, as a + center cut requires the arrow to paradox more as it leaves the bow.
Generally speaking, bows cut well past center like your's allow more tuning flexibility.

Adding weight to the front takes spine out of the arrow, while adding weight to the back increases spine.

Good luck with your tuning...

[huntin_sparty]

Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Put your back hair down, pard.  Sounded like you were doing a lot of guessing, that's all...


Good luck with your tuning...

ND
No back hair up.  One of the bad things on the net.  I was doing fair bit of guessing in effort to try and save some $ before buying and trying.  Just sounds like it wont work that way.  Thanks and no worries sorry if my prior post sounded scrappy!  thanks for your help!

[BWD]

I use GT brass weights screwed into the back of the std. heritage insert. Allows me to adjust weight and use different broadhead weights. Note: the 10 gr. aluminum weights are hard to get out unless you decrease the diameter slightly with fine sand paper and crocus cloth.

[metsastaja]

I shoot CE Heritage both 150's and 250's from recurves 49# 54#. Are you going to use fast flight or B50 that makes a difference too.  

I would wait for the bow.

3 rivers does carry a baseshaft kit that includes 90 150 250 and 350

[Zbearclaw]

What bow are you waiting on?  

I am currently shooting 29" CE heritage 250s with 175gr VPA terminator heads, 3x5" feathers, full length reflective wraps and stock inserts and nocks.

I ordered some 350s so I can play with additional weight up front.

My bow is a BW PSA 60" #55 @27", drawing a bit past that.

These shafts are solid and durable.  The spine is as advertised.  The final weight can be counted on plus or minus your glue, and they hit hard.

In my compound life I was the definition of a tinkerer.

Easton ACC and CE are as good as there is.

My opinion of course.