Cascade Tuning/Black Widows... and frustration sets in!!

[mrpenguin]

Hello All,

I traded for a nice Cascade Golden Hawk Mag Deluxe recently.  The bow is 60@28" 52 AMO.  I pull split fingers and am trying to tune up Easton Axis FMJ Dangerous Game arrows with an EFOC setup.  Currently, the specs are: 300 spine, 30.5", 300 grs up front with insert and tip.  I am using a newly twisted B50 string, Musk Ox silencers.  BH is at around 8" (tried lower around 7 1/4-7 1/2 and it really didn't tune well).  The arrow wobbles a little, not much.  In fact I bet a 4-fletching set up would negate it.

But the bow doesn't hit where I look.  Its always off... which says to me the bow is not tuned.  All the spine charts and such suggest my setup should work... but it doesn't.

So here's the deal...

At the local shop there is a Black Widow Autumn Oak recurve/longbow hybrid.  Its a 56 AMO and pulls to right around 51 lbs at my draw.  I fooled around with it the other day and hit the mark EVERY TIME with it.

Honestly, I really just want a bow that shoots for me.  I have tried several and this BW is one of the best I've shot.  BUT cash is short with the baby at home... I may be able to trade off my a bow for it or sell the Cascade, but I'm not sure.

SO, in all your experiences, is the mantra of 'some bows just shot well for you, some don't' a reality?  OR is this more of a stick with it and practice situation.  I guess I am a little annoyed that I have not really found a bow that works for me like my grandpa's old Browning did (limb is separating on it).  It was a 56" and was 50 lbs., just like the BW...

Also, what is the longevity of a BW?  Any advice on making the Cascade work OR just moving on would be great!!

[kat]

You say 'but the bow doesn't hit where I look'.
Are you shooting consistantly to the left or to the right like a spine issue, or just randomly missing the mark?
Most any bow can be tuned when you find the correct combination. Keep experimenting would be my advice.

[mrpenguin]

Hi Ken,

There is no real consistency.  I do not think it is the spine of the arrow.  I guess I wonder if maybe a 56 AMO @ around 50 lbs is more my ideal setup or if I can make this Cascade work.  It's a nice bow, but I'd rather have a bow that shoots for me than a really nice bow.

Thanks again!

[Cherokee Scout]

One factor is how the riser is cut, to center, past center etc.. The tiller of the limbs along with string type, silencer type and placement are also factors.
Different bows of same poundage does not mean they shot the same spine arrows.

[JimB]

I think you are trying to shoot to short a bow.I'm not sure what your actual draw length is but if it is close to 30",that 52" bow would be awfully short.I have a 28 3/4" draw length and I just can't shoot bows shorter than 56" as well.I think 56" is borderline short for me.It is tough to make a blanket statement about draw length vs bow length as every bow is different as is every shooter.

I have always had a thing for short bows but like to shoot split finger and I just get too much pinch and below 56",issues crop up.

Again,I don't know what your actual draw length is but for me,I would do best with 56"-58",with a 29" draw length and if it were 30" I would be looking at 60"-62".And of course,you would still have to shoot the individual bow to see if it works for you.I would have to believe someone would buy that Cascade pretty quickly and you could then get into another good used bow that worked for you.Good luck.

I'm not aware of a BW "hybrid"--is it a longbow or a recurve? Cascade bows are shooters, but 52" is on the short side for a bow of that weight. You may just shoot a lighter draw weight, somewhat longer and more stable bow better. Longevity? Widows last forever. If you have found a bow that you shoot well, and it's a Widow, I'd find a way to finance it. You won't have any trouble selling the Cascade, or maybe you could trade it toward the Widow.

[mrpenguin]

Thanks Jim!  My DL is 28" and it draws smoothly for me.  Its a really nice bow, but I was a bit skeptical about a mag for me anyway... but I wanted to give it a try and see how it felt.

I may go ahead and sell the Cascade... just talked with my buddy at the shop and made an offer on the BW.

Thanks again!

[L82HUNT]

Im thinking your talking about a PSR or a SAB.  It could also be the bow weight of the Cascade being a little much.

[mrpenguin]

PSR I think...

Do you have any experience with them?

[JimB]

I would bet that 56" bow would be perfect for you.

[mrpenguin]

Thanks for the advice Huntryx!

[cch]

I think your arrows are way too stiff. I have a 60# and it shoots .400 spine arrows with 200gr really good and they are 30" and I pull 28 1/2- 29". It also shoots .500 spine arrows the same length with 145gr tips. Try a lighter spine. If you are intent on the supper heavy tips try .340 spine. Also are you shooting 3 under if not you may be getting finger pinch.

[Steve O]

I agree with cch, too stiff a shaft.

[robtattoo]

Yep, way too stiff.
Either throw another 100gn + on the front, or try a .340

Again, not really apples to apples, but I'm shooting a few pounds more than 60 & a 300 wouldn't tune for me with any less than 400gn up front. Even a .340 needs 300+ I shoot a 225-250gn broadhead on a 100gn insert with a full length MFX 340. 200gn is my minimum broadhead weight to keep perfect flight.

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

I agree with too stiff. 340's would be worth a try!

[mrpenguin]

Thanks Gents...

I ended up putting the bow up for sale. Trying to work out a deal for the Black Widow.  It really is the bow I want and the thing shoots amazingly!

I'll update the thread for those interested when things unfold... and then its time to get shootin' and ready for those spring gobblers!

[bentpole]

Seems to me like my Bud L82HUNT said. The Cascade might be heavy for you. At 60#s too much bow. Your not consistant because your not reaching full draw, anchor, clean release, and watch the arrow hit the target.Try another arrow or play with the weight up front on yours. The arrow might be too stiff.  Also find out what the proper brace height is recommended from another Trad Ganger or better yet the Bowyer @ Cascade Archery.

[Wal]

Mate,

  I also shoot a GH mag 60#@29" , I am far from any type of trad gear guru, but I was under the impression that they were tillered 3 under, and mine seems to love 71/2 -7 5/8 as the brace height. I think the bloke who thought you are a bit over bowed may be onto something, may be try a bit more regular practice anlong the lines of less arrows more often, so as to avoid fatigue.

I'd contact Cascade re the brace height etc, the time I contacted them they are only to help, in fact Steve because he shoots a 52" bow was very interested in thoughts.

Cheers

[widow sax]

That is why widows are so highly prized by the people that shoot them.  Widow

[Jesse Minish]

Cascade bows are amazingly accurate and easy to shoot IMO. Sounds like your arrows are to stiff and maybe you are over bowed.

It isn't the bow. Although not every bow is for every person. If I had a the widow you wanted I would trade you