The trend of lighter and lighter ....

[bayoulongbowman]

that pic is too big!!!!!!!!!

[James Wrenn]

I have never seen any animal lost because of lack of penitration unless the arrow was sticking somewhere it had no business and heavier would not have helped.After you get to where you are shooting through most things you hunt why would shooting more weight or heavier arrows be better?I have seen lots of pictures posted on this and other sites of animals with arrows hanging out from some pretty heavy bows.People push heavy arrows and little skinny broadheads when someone is just hunting deer.That makes as much sense to me as you seem to get from someone wanting to know about lighter setups. :)If I wanted to go shoot a huge animal that was know to be tough to kill I would certainly be thing heavy bows and arrows.The majority of hunters will never be in that situations so gunning for bear and then going bird hunting is not the best approach to things.You match gear to what you hunt and light bows serve very well for the normal things we kill. jmo

[BUFF]

I really enjoy shooting heavy bows. I'm not saying light bows will not take game, I just like the feel and the thump of the heavy weights

[larry]

I would repectfully take issue with the two statements "lighter bows are harder to shoot" and "what's the least effort I can put out"

in regards to the first, I would say that lighter bows may reveal flaws in your form that weren't evident with a heavier bow.

and to the second, I like to practice with the same weight I hunt with, and that's what I've done, all my years of shooting, and I like to shoot alot...pehaps if I had practiced more with a lighter bow, and saved shooting a heavier one just for hunting, I'd still be able to shoot the heavier bows, but I really don't see how that would have benefited my shooting, as it is, I Am still shooting the heaviest bow that I can. sure I could shoot a heavier one if I only chose to shoot 4 or 5 arrows a day...but who can do that? I love shooting to much to limit myself to that.

[George D. Stout]

It's evident that people who bad mouth lighter bows have never taken deer with one.  It also shows an ignorance of the bow and arrow and what it can do.  With all the history we have, ignorance is unexcusable.

I'll tell you right now that a forty pound bow, shooting a 400 grain arrow, can blow through a whitetail chest...ribs in and ribs out.  I've seen it many times.  I also have seen some lousy shots...check Denton Hill sometime...and they are mostly overbowed.

To those of you who don't get it...please get educated.   When someone drops from say 55 to 45 an amazing thing usually happens.  They actually increase their draw length.  I've seen guys struggle with sixty pound bows pulling them maybe twenty six inches at best.  You let them pull a fifty and all of a sudden...voila!...two more inches of draw.  A sixty pound bow drawn to 26" is about 54 pound;  a fifty drawn to 28 is of course 50.  However, the fifty pounder will perform better because it has two more inches of power stroke.  KE  means nothing when you aren't pulling the weight you think you are.

Now...to you guys who think forty-five pounders are too light?  Let me shoot one into your car door at twenty yards.  I'll use a really light 400 grain arrow, with a sharp Magnus 145 on the end, so it will probably bounce off.  Anyone willing to try that?

I've seen arrows from forty pound bows go through deer and out the other side.  A friend's wife shot a whitetail doe in the neck, from the front, and the arrow was sticking out the rear ham.  The bow was a 35 pound Shakespeare Necedah.
Some of us have been there and done that, and know what a bow does in real life....not in a indoor science project.

If some of you would have actually been around during the 1960's, you would have marveled at how a few hearty souls pulled those heavy 60 pounders which, by the way, had to be special ordered from most bow companies of the day.  

No one here is criticizing those shooting heavy equipment;  it's just a few know-it-alls who have to chime in and show their lack of knowledge about the subject of lighter bows and their efficiency.  

As far as wounding deer?  That's a product of lousy shooting, and one doesn't need a weight chart for that.

[johnnail]

"Suppose that once in a lifetime 230# buck shows up, just a few yards farther than that maximum range you set for yourself and he's not broadside, in fact he's a bit past quartering away, are you going to pass up the shot?"

YES. In my opinion, Bow poundage won't make up for a poor shot.

[Pinecone]

In response to the question about where to purchase my Vapor 2000's, I'd suggest looking at Kustom King or Three Rivers.  Honestly, I've had my shafts so long that I do not recall where I purchased them.  Try the above and you'll likely find them.

Claudia

[GEREP]

"Why is it only that on everyone of these, "whats the lightest" threads(which are nearly a daily thing now), I NEVER see anyone posting about the animals that ran off with an arrow in them, never to be found, because of insufficient penetration? I KNOW it happens, I've seen it happen, I've had it happen to myself, back when I started hunting with a 45# bow. I've spent DAYS of hunting time helping others track animals that they didn't get enough penetration on. I've found dead deer in the woods with arrows in them that didn't go in far enough. I've read articles where I knew that the writer didn't get enough penetration on the animal in question, but that was never mentioned."

That is a VERY easy question to answer.  Simply put, becuase those very things you mention happen with EVERY bow weight, from 40 to 90 pounds.  It takes very little energy to push an arrow through the rib cage of most animals, unless you're talking water buffalo or some other huge ribbed animals that the vast majority of us are never likely to hunt anyway.  Simply put, if you hit a deer in the rib cage, unless your arrow is flying so poorly that it can't possibly penetrate, it matters not whether the deer is 90 lbs or 290 lbs.

Some people never like the facts to get in the way of a good story but 99% of the animals that are not recovered are for one of two reasons. (or a combination of both)  

1. They were hit in the wrong spot, regardless of draw weight.

2. They were indeed hit fatally but just couldn't be found.

KPC

[Mr.Magoo]

All due respect to Arwin and his daughter, that deer looked like a small fawn to me.  A 28# bow will get you a ticket from the warden here.

[painthorse]

I get Vapor 2000,s from Lancaster archery supply.6.2 gpi at around 55 bucks and some change.

[Skipmaster1]

I know I have posted these two pics around here, like at least a million times. First because I have only been hunting with Trad gear since October and these are my only 2 kills(and I'm proud of them), second, because I think they prove a good point. Before i start, I also shoot a compound and mainly hunt deer. My wheel bow is 80#'s with close to 90#KE, so I really like heavy. I am new to trad and want to work up to shooting 55-60#'s with ease and accuracy.
The bottom line is that it is really not needed though.
I took this buck my 3rd day in the woods with my recurve. He was quartering away at 17yds and the first shot hit him about 5" high. it buried into the spine and dropped him. I made a perfect second shot and blew through his scap and lodged in his sternum. He weighed 250#'s on the hoof. I was shooting 55# recurve@ 28"(drawn to about 52#'s) with a 488grain arrow and a 125grain Razor shark. The shot wasn't perfect but the bow was well more than enough.
 

And that leads us to last easter weekend. I took the 600# hog at 15-17yds with a 49#@ 28" longbow(drawn a full 28") and a 430grain arrow with a 125grain razor shark. It was a complete pass through, except for the nock. Tight to the front leg and through the "shield".
 

The bottom line is if a 49# bow will do that to a big hog, a 40# bow is more than enough to drop a deer.

My buddy has taken 3 deer, all under 20yds with a 37# longbow. All 3 shots, the head lodged in the opposite shoulder, but he got 2 lungs and the heart. No exit but he hit heavy bone on the other side. All 3 deer went down in seconds.

[GEREP]

That deer is a "hog," and that hog, well thats a lotta pork...

Great photos and congrats!

   

KPC

[Molson]

You can't argue with what George said.  A 40# bow can kill any whitetail.  If you choose to shoot lighter weights, there's nothing wrong with that.  

At the same time, a light weight bow is not the cure all for shooting problems.  It seems easy to just say someone is overbowed. As if a reduction of 5 or 10#'s of weight will magically transform you into a shooting machine.  Nonsense!  It takes time and knowledge to learn to shoot well.  A light weight bow will certainly help you learn proper form, but you have to actually learn proper form.  Once you learn it, you have to know how to maintain it.

That is the problem I see with light weight bows.  They can allow a person to shoot better with poor form.  That just doesn't transform into accuracy or penetration in the woods.

[Traxx]

Molson,
You make a very good,and valid point.I love these post,that make a person think.

[Littlefeather]

Dang, I'd hate to be the guy to tell all those Indians who used bows and arrows to sustain their lives for the last few thousand years that 40# isn't enough draw weight. Most of the Indian tribes bows were around 40# of draw, not all but most. Dang, they even shot buffalo and ate well. CK

[Ray Johnson]

I started out with 55# about 5 years ago and I shot it for a couple of years.I was snapshooting and inconsistent in accuracy.I then dropped to 52#,then 46#,and now 40#.I never had good form with any of the weights above except when I started shooting the 40# bow.I'm shooting better now than I ever have.I don't snapshoot anymore and my TP is just about gone.I can hold at anchor for quite a while(without collapsing)and still make a good shot.I am not lazy and I resent the implication that I am.I shoot more than I ought to.It's ridiculous sometimes how much time I've invested in trying to improve.I've tried everything to be consistent in accuracy.Some things worked for a while but I always ended up being inconsistent.Alot of it was TP.Dropping down to 40# was THE answer for me.I'm having fun again.I can shoot all day without fatigue.My arrows are tuned well to the bow and I'm as confident in my shooting as I've ever been.I'm not satisfied with snapshooting 8" groups at 20 yards.I'm not a weak man by any means but I think that starting out with 55# just screwed me up from the getgo.I feel that I could work up to 50# or more rather easily now that I know what "good form" is and am shooting with good form.I doubt that I will go up in draw weight right now though and I may never.This will be my first year to hunt with my new 40# bow and light 400gr arrows and I guess if I have an arrow bounce off the chest of a deer,then I'll have to rethink what I'm doing.I don't think that will happen though.Accuracy is THE most important thing to me and I decided that if it meant dropping down to 40# to get consistent accuracy then I would do it.I'm going hog hunting in the morning with my new bow.Low and tight behind the shoulder should get the job done.
                                  RayJ

[Skipmaster1]

I think with the lighter rigs, tuning becomes more important than the heavy ones. I'm not saying that you shouldn't tune heavy bows, just saying that with the lighter rigs, you don't have much KE or momentum to spare.

Accuracy is the MOST important part of putting game down quickly. The "10" ring on my 3d target is 4" and if I can't put 19 out of 20 arrows in there, i won't hunt at that range. right now that is 20yds with my longbow. I am shooting 6-8" groups out to 30-35yds but i won't hunt that far.

[Pinelander]

Well, I would guess that some of my dissertations on the "other" forum about light/heavy arrows, may have prompted Magoo to start this thread. It's apparent that discussions like these can in fact, turn into "validation" forums of what can and cannot be done with certain setups.

I agree with what George Stout had to say.

I might take issue with KirkII's statement that shot placement on a deer would be critical with 21 lbs. of KE. I'm not saying that it isn't critical, because nearly ALL shot placements on deer are critical.... regardless of poundage, arrow weight, or whatever.

 

Originally posted by Kirkll:

.... Your shot placement on a deer would be critical. 21 pounds of KE is not going through a shoulder blade, or even through the front of the rib cage..... 20 yards & under, low and right behind the shoulder would do the job nicely on a deer. [/b]

Obviously the shoulder blade is not a good choice (by intent or accident), but the "front of the rib cage" might be somewhat questionable. OK, so here comes the validation part.... 40# with 400 gr. arrow on a rather large bodied deer from 16 feet up, 13 yards out, and quartered away. Hit high behind the shoulder, arrow was stopped by the opposite front leg (down low by the elbow), and breaking a rib going out. Can't remember exactly which one it was.... but I would guess the 3rd or 4th. It was no different than shots taken with much higher poundage and much heavier arrows, with the same resulting penetration. And of course, he sure was good eatin' just like the others were.  

[hs6181]

what Snakeeater said    
1st page, 5th post
 

[cjones]

What about a 400gr arrow out of a 50# bow?