Skinny Strings Chronograph Results, on Video you may be surprised

[George D. Stout]

Robert, some of us (even old farts like me) want to maximize the shooting process, even if it includes that terrible "faster" word.  Fact is Robert, the skinny string helps me maximize my accuracy and makes for a quiet bow...which I consider a good thing and worth "messin" with.

I agree that one should get their bow tuned and shoot for accuracy and comfort.  What really pays off is understanding that somethings are worth changing and not being closed-minded...like I was for many decades.  Sometimes change is beneficial in ways not immediately apparent.

I shoot my traditional bows because I love them, but I also have finally figured out that they can be made a little better, in many facets....not just speed.  I am very much impressed with the strength and functionality of a six strand string, and my accuracy has been enhanced by using them....and I will bet my hunt on that. 8^).

[LBR]

LBR said, "Seems to me some folks are getting caught up on speed, period, rather than the comparison itself."

Well the speed is the focal point of the testing, regarding the different strings. And I'm sure 4 less strands will be significant from 10 strands....maybe another 60 grains....who knows without a complete test.

It is interesting, but not all-inclusive until the real skinny strings are included.
 

I have to disagree.  Speed was not the focal point.  The  difference  in speed (or lack thereof) in different weight strings and different materials was the focal point, not speed itself.  40% less weight is 40% less weight, doesn't matter if you are comparing huge, moderate, or tiny.

10 strands of 8125 is skinny, or at least it was a year or two ago.  8125 is near the same diameter of original FF, and 18-20 strands of FF was the norm not too long ago.

I rather see a test with a decimeter than with a chronograph.  I don't think zero variance is normal, but I don't think it will be huge with most any bow, even going from a "fat" 14 strand Dynaflight '97 to a "skinny" 6 strand 8125.  The one exception may be the ACX, with lighter than normal limb mass, and even they acknowledge the gains are reduced when reaching more moderate to heavy draw weights.

I agree it's not an all-inclusive test.  Testing different bows would help, insuring the nock fit is the same for all, tuning is the same for all, etc.  

For my part, even if it can be proven you can gain 10 fps going to a tiny string, I'm quite happy with a more moderate (dependable, safer, less susceptable to Murpy's Law) strand count.

[Rob DiStefano]

as lots of folks, including our beloved resident curmudgeon george  :D  , have already posted, there are low strand factors that to us are important than some added fps, me included.

but this thread is about some chrono'd results of some 'skinny' strings versus some 'normal' strings.  

my take is that i don't think the the skinny strings were of a low enuf count, nor were there enuf proper like string fiber comparisons, nor was there a diversity of bows for the test.  there are other factors to consider about any bowstrings, such as 'breaking' each string in to allow initial stretch to work out.

[Hatrick]

Rob DiStefano wrote:  " no question in my testing with lotsa different bows that the skinnys make for less noise. i dunno or care about the speed factor, but they HAVE to be faster since mass string weight is GREATLY reduced."

My feelings and findings as well. I have a lot of D-97 string so that's all I've used or care to use until I run out (and that will be a long time)

I've read a lot of posts on the subject and regardless of what others may say, I KNOW what I SEE, FEEL and HEAR. I'm using 8 strands with 16 in the loops and yarn silencers. I like! I use!

I recently got a bow to test from a reputable bowyer. I'm not sure what type of low stretch material was in the string he sent. I wanted to see if there was a difference with one of my 8 strand strings so I made one for the bow. I saw a noticable difference in noise reduction. Can't say for sure about speed because I don't chrono bows but it did SEEM to be a bit quicker.

When I sent the bow back, I also sent my 8 strand D-97 and told the bowyer to give it a try. After he tried it he said he noticed the same.

Your mileage may vary.    :D

[David McLendon]

I shoot a 6 strand Ultra Cam on a BW PAX 63#@29. It is 14 fps faster than a 14 strand D97 and quieter with the same arrow. I choose to put the reduced string weight back into the arrow and shoot a heavier arrow at a slightly higher speed for more momentum and stability.

[Robert Honaker]

George, I don't mean to say that it might not help in some areas of shooting. Do what's best for you, and have fun doing it.

I'm not closed minded, but I do realize that once I quit tinkerin' and just tuned my bow to easily acquired arrows/strings/broadheads and practiced with that instead of tinkerin' I became much more deadly and confident. I spent more time shooting for accuracy instead of trying stuff out and getting arrows to fly good with my new "set-up."

Will 6-8 fps and less string silencer material help me kill more animals?

If it would I would do it, but I have been down that road.

By the way I love your stumpin' video George. It made me go outside and fling a few.

[michaelschwister]

I tried 6 strands on my 74# ferguson.  String blew after about 200 shots.  That never happened before, and won;t again as I use no less than 12 now.  Not worth it IMHO.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by michaelschwister:
I tried 6 strands on my 74# ferguson.  String blew after about 200 shots.  That never happened before, and won;t again as I use no less than 12 now.  Not worth it IMHO.

where did the string break?  

6 strands of what fiber?  

flemish or endless?  

padded loops?

imo, 6 strands for a 74# holding weight is good for a flight bow and not a hunting bow.  10 strands of d'02 or f8125, w/padded loops, will last for a long time with decent proper care.

[BRITTMAN]

I enjoyed the video learned from it and apreciate you taking time to do it and post it on here for us .

mike

[David McLendon]

There's probably close to 1200 shots on my 6 strand ultra cam.

[DesertDude]

The biggest gain from using a "Skinny String" is how quite the bow gets. This Should be more inportent than a few feet per second. The last time I checked No bow/arrow is faster than the Speed of Sound...... This will help us when bowhunting. I have found 9-12 strands of TS1+ & 9 str of D97 work best for me...YMMV

[Gordon martiniuk]

I use 8 to 10 strands of 452x or 8125 or dyna flight 97 all strong enough for my bows from 55 to 60 Lbs I pad the loops for flemish or will double serve the end loops (nock ends)for endless strings  just to make it a bit more quiet a shot, I probably will get a few thousand shots per string at least never had one break!

[katman]

Interesting results, many variables to control.

I would still use the skinny string even if they were a little slower than thicker strings since they are quieter for me. But I have found them to be better at putting energy into the arrow.

[michaelschwister]

TS 1 flemish twist, loops not padded. Was shooting 820 grain arrows. String broke 2" below the upper loop.  120# per strand makes a #720 pound string, for multiple of nearly 10.  Old school for flax string was shooting for a multiple of 6 (444# flax string required for this bow).I only hunt, and shooting over 10g ppd (11.8 with that setup) I saw no advantage to a skinny string.  Maybe with a light recurve and ligth arrows, but not a hunting longbow setup.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by michaelschwister:
TS 1 flemish twist, loops not padded. Was shooting 820 grain arrows. String broke 2" below the upper loop.  120# per strand makes a #720 pound string, for multiple of nearly 10.  Old school for flax string was shooting for a multiple of 6 (444# flax string required for this bow).I only hunt, and shooting over 10g ppd (11.8 with that setup) I saw no advantage to a skinny string.  Maybe with a light recurve and ligth arrows, but not a hunting longbow setup.

no matter how far above 100# a string fiber manufacturer rates a strand, i call it 100#.  55# longbow, 6 strands of f8125 or df'97 or d'02, etc. = 600# tensile strength.  it'd take at least 14 strands of dacron to come close to that strength (B50 or B500 is s'posed to be 50#/strand but i call it closer to 45# in reality).  

i'd bet that loop padding would have saved yer string.

i find the opposite of your findings - low strand count strings are quieter on all my longbows.  dunno about the speed thing.  don't care.  

no matter what the latest fashionable gear or trick has come down the pike, whatever works best is just the right ticket for each of us.    

[Robert Honaker]

I want to add one more thing.
Any bow if totally silent will still make a whooshing sound off the string. That will make a deer duck the same as a whack or thump. In other words be prepared for it. They will try to duck the string with any sound even a whoosh.

[Rob DiStefano]

yep, ain't no such thing as a 'deer quiet bow'.  lotsa other critters apply as well.  :D

[Robert Honaker]

Yep, it can be a hundred decibles or twenty and the deer will duck the same amount.

[LBR]

Has anyone actually tested string noise with a decimeter or a similar device?  Judging string noise with your ears is like judging arrow speed with your eyes--it's very unreliable at best.

I remember several years ago I took a chrony to a rendevous for giggles.  A bunch of us were shooting and comparing, and a fellow asked if he could give it a go.  For what it's worth, he was an older guy, seemed to be experienced, certainly not a newbie.  He guessed he was getting around 200 fps from his recurve.  The chrony gauged him in the mid 160's.  I'd bet most folks who use nothing but their eyes to gauge speed are in the same boat, as are folks who use just their ears to gauge noise.  

Lots of us, especially older ones and/or those of us who have worked in construction, around heavy machinery, etc. have some hearing loss and pick up on some pitches much better than others.  Therefore, the pitch you pick up on will sound louder to you, even if it's actually quieter.  Even if you have perfect hearing, it's hard to distinguish a noise level, especially if the pitch is different (as is often the case between different string materials and strand counts).

The actual controlled tests that I know of put the BEST gains at around 7 fps, with most being maybe 3-4 fps.  You can get that much difference going from a poorly made string to a well made one--same material, same strand count.  The same goes for noise--well made will be quieter.  The only way to KNOW this, for sure, is to test it with the proper equipment--not your ears....just like the only way to KNOW what is faster is to use a Hooter Shooter and chrony, not just your eyes.

I'd love to hear some actual noise tests, with equipment made to gauge noise.

Chad

[LBR]

Robert and Rob posted while I was typing.  I agree--even with a totally silent bow, the arrow/feathers will make noise, and the critter will hear it.

I also agree that whatever is new/fashionable doesn't matter, it's whatever works best for the individual.

Chad