Skinny Strings Chronograph Results, on Video you may be surprised

[DesertDude]

Yep,  All this is good information, one must try and find what works best for his or her set up.

Is it spring yet?

LBR- Nothing with a meter, Larry and I shot different bows and string combos indoors. We are just going by the sound it makes in a small area (hallway).

[Robert Honaker]

From  CB bow, but still should be the same meaning. Abunch of CB bows were tested for sound. Very expensive, big brand name down to average Joe type bows. At the bows, decibles ranged from very high to low. The same bows down range all registered the same decible levels.

That tells me it just don't matter. Deer still hear any noise, loud or subtle and react the same.

And myself being around wild horses I can attest to that. They jump whether it's a slight noise or a loud one.

[Rob DiStefano]

chad, your points are well taken by me and i agree.  without empirical data, it's all conjecture and theory.

if we know that trad bow launched arrows won't fly past the sound barrier, they will make noise upon release and everyone will hear that noise.

the question then becomes what is an animal's reaction to that released bow/arrow noise - not just the decibel level, but the frequency.

question: are there specific sonic frequencies that freak out critters more than other frequencies?

that's the question that makes the most sense to me.

a bow that has a high freq noise sounds bad to my ears.  quieting that frequency - that is to say, equalize the frequency (audio EQ) - and bias it on the lower frequency scale is what i think we're hearing as we 'quiet' a bow.  the tone of the bowstring twangs sound less harsh to our ears since it's now a lower freq.  

does that 'low freq quieting' not startle game as much as higher freqs?

[LBR]

And myself being around wild horses I can attest to that. They jump whether it's a slight noise or a loud one.

I think that is an excellent comparison, at least for those of us that have been around horses.  A spooky horse will jump at dang near anything.  A calm, relaxed horse won't let much bother it, to the point where you can shoot firearms off the backs of some of them (and not have your own personal rodeo).

 

without empirical data, it's all conjecture and theory.

Dang...you took all my typing and put it in one short, sweet, easy sentence.  You are right on the money.

 

question: are there specific sonic frequencies that freak out critters more than other frequencies?

That's another excellent question, and I have no idea.  I do recall some testing that Lee Robinson did some years ago (he used to own "Keep it Simple Archery"), and as I recall he found that lower pitches (which we don't pick up on as much) actually carry further.

Sometimes I think some of this stuff is like camo and fishing lures--meant more to fool the customer than the critter.  'Course, also like camo and fishing lures, if you have confidence in a certain one then it seems to work a lot better.

Chad

[Robert Honaker]

I can also say that I have one wild as heck horse and he jumps at any kinda noise...high or low frequency. If he has not heard it before he jumps regardless of volumn or frequency.

Break a stick, cough, brush against your clothing...it doesn't matter...the deer will duck before he jumps at any unfamiliar sound.

When I came over to the good side I wondered where to hold on a deer. I almays held low with a CB due to it jumping. Well when I started with trad I just looked where I wanted the arrow to go, hence I shot over every freaking thing!

I then started concentrating on a spot well below where I wanted my arrow to hit..MONEY! I started killing every deer I drew on.

All I'm sayin is noise aint that big a factor. It is there and even if you reduce it you still ahve to geal with it the same.

Although a very brisk thwack or low swoosh makes a bow seem so much better than a loud thunk or crack. If a skinny string gives you that go for it.

[Onestringer]

I am glad most people enjoyed the video, I really did it for myself just to see what happened.

In the next couple of weeks I am trying

8 strand D97
10 strand D97
6 strand ultra cam
B50
And 450x something

I have actually tried using a decibel meter while shooting a couple of different strings, but we had to watch the spikes because we were not in a sound proof room, but that would sure be fun.

[TNstickn]

I enjoyed your video. Lookin foward to the rest. Thanks for your efforts.      

[Arrow4Christ]

The thing that may have surprised me most was the 15fps pickup between 28-30" draw  :eek:  Makes me grateful for my long draw..I thought the pickup would be between 6-8fps. I knew draw length made a big difference but that was more than I anticipated. I'm sure it's different with different setups though.

Craig

[barley40]

I wrote a pretty good reply, but erased it. Let everyone shoot what they want, but hey, back in the '60s folks wanted bows to shoot faster and faster. Theres always gonna be ways to make 'em faster, look on the outdoor channel and see where it leads!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Robert Honaker:
JMHO, but I aint never gonna bet my hunt on six strands.

I wouldn't either.  

[seabound]

Originally posted by Rob DiStefano:
does that 'low freq quieting' not startle game as much as higher freqs?

i recall reading about the low frequency "whoo" sounds Indians used to communicate w/o spooking game. very interesting subject. i'm curious about low frequency noise and wildlife reactions as well.

[Jesse Peltan]

Here's some food for thought.  Lower frequency is less directional than higher frequency.  I have a friend who gun hunts.  He can shoot a muzzle-loader that produces a low frequency sound and he can miss a deer without the deer moving, because it doesn't know where the noise came from.  However stepping on a twig will send them running because even though quieter the noise is more directional.

Also, people forget about tuning.  If a bow is untuned it doesn't preform it's best.  It's not as fast as it can be nor is it as quiet as it can be.  This is the main reason that b-50 users think ff materials are loud.  They don't retune their bows for the fastflight material.  They would all think b-50 was louder if the bow was tuned for ff and switched to b-50.  The test won't show the true benefits of skinny ff strings if the bow isn't retuned for each string.  This is also why a lot of people are puzzled as to why b-50 is quieter on one bow and ff is quieter on another.  A skinny 8125 or ultra cam that is tuned to the bow will be quieter than a b-50.  The simple reason is that less material on the string and less drag makes the bow more efficient.  This is the same reason that heavier arrows make a bow quieter.  Less energy is used to make handshock and noise and instead is transferred into the arrow.

Michelschwister, ts 1 is not a good candidate for skinny strings.  It stretches too much and isn't actually so strong.  A good rule is that you need 5x draw weight for breaking strength of the string and that the manufactures claim 2x as much breaking strength as actual.  Or you can use the rule of you need 10x draw weight and use the manufactures suggestions.  Anyways the string you tried was not safe for that draw weight especially out of ts 1.  If you use 8125 6strands is good up to 73# of draw weight 8 is good up to 98 and 9 is good up to 110.  If you make 2 bundle use 8strands if you make 3 bundle use 9.  Then pad to 15 or 18 for 3 bundle or 16 or 18 for 2 bundle.

Also the 45#-50# bow comparison was good but I think ol's finding found more of a 45-60# bow difference.  Meaning one bow is 60# one is 45#. They both shoot the same arrow the same speed, they're both the same price, but the 45# bow is quieter and has less vibration.  Which bow would buy?

[L82HUNT]

Over the last few months Ive made dozens of strings for my bows(D97, UltraCam)  In my case it seems that longbows gain more in fps but still 4 fps was the most I gained.
 While curves seem to be a little quieter.  When I go down to strand counts between 6-10 compared to 14-16.  Anyone elser have anything like this?

[artifaker1]

I didn't see the video, but I clearly had to use shorter arrows with my 10 strand 8125s. My widows seem to like a 12 strand 8125 (shooting with the best feel and cast I guess). Sometimes you just have to disregard somethings.

[FlintRiverKen]

Strings: 174 gr endless loop 14 str B50 vs 108 gr 8 str D97 SBD flemish. Both strings have yarn puff homemade silencers.

Bow 45#@28 Shakespeare X-12 Wambaw, still perfecting bow scale setup, just say 40-43# at my draw.

A single arrow 465 gr cedar used.
B50 avg 146.9 fps stdev 2 fps
SBD avg 154.3 fps stdev 2 fps

Are those 'few fps' important to me? dang straight they are. 9 months after hurting my string shoulder the 55#widow is still gathering dust. Maybe i'll work back up to it, if not I want to be the best I can with what I can pull. The 7.4 fps gain with the SBD skinny amounts to a 10.3% gain in KE and 5% gain in momentum.

Before i got the Chrony for Christmas i got the SBD earlier in Dec. I could tell right off the arrows were sinking noticeably deeper in the target and flying flatter. Guess that means yeah you can see 7 fps without a machine.

I had the old Wambaw quiet and tuned with the B50. I got it 30 years ago brand new as a young jarhead so i know it prettly well, enough to know that putting the SBD skinny on it was like DANG, A NEW BOW! Now with the SBD brace height is not critical and to both mine and my son's ears is much quieter.

[MSwickard]

If I'm reading the scale correctly, the 28" draw is getting 44.5# and the 30" draw is 49.7#.  So the gain is 5.6# which contributed to a 15 fps advantage. So essentially, each inch past 28" was adding 2.6786# of draw or roughly 7.5 fps.  

Seems pretty efficient, but I have nothing to compare it too.

Mike

[Greg Owen]

I have enjoyed the video. I finally watched it. What is the resolution on the chronograph? I don't trust electronics after having worked with them for 25 years. If you test anymore, I would try 1/4" above and below 28" and see if the numbers change 1-2 fps. I doubt the chronograph is having a problem but it would be something I would test.

[LBR]

If you can see the difference in 146.9 fps and 154.3 fps, that means you can see the difference in .408441 seconds and .388853 seconds--the time it takes that arrow to travel approximately 20 yds.--if you can keep your eye on it from the time it leaves the bow until it strikes the target.  That's .19588 seconds, or roughly 2 tenths of a second difference.  

I wish my eyes were that good--anywhere close would be great.

[Greg Owen]

Think you missed a decimal point there. That's 2 hundredths of a second.  I was thinking 20 yards is similar to the 66 feet from pitches mound to home plate. 2 tenths of a second would be easily discernable but 2 hundredths is not. Its like knowing the difference of a 110mph fastball and a 115mph fastball. If the chronograph has an accuracy tolerance of say +/- 1 foot per second, that is a 2 fps range. It's entirely possible that the range of error is more than the speed gain/lost from the strings he used.

[artifaker1]

You don't see the difference with the human eye, in the speed of the arrow, you see the difference in the character of the arrow flight. Like taking the tip protector off the lower tip and seeing the arrow hit six inches higher at 35 yards with the noc starting to show high left where it was straight before. Indoors in poor light at twenty yards it probably wouldn't show. Well that's my claim anyway, that you can really "see" small increases if your eyes are good.