Skinny Strings Chronograph Results, on Video you may be surprised

[sagebrush]

I shot a eight strand D97 string all summer and fall last year. I made several of them. My bow is a ACS CX 45 and 55 pound limbs. I played with it all year because of all that I read about the advantages gained with a smaller string. Maybe I did something wrong I don't know but it didn't seem to be any quieter. And the speed of the arrows seemed the same. I also didn't noticed any difference in the spine issue. Gary

[JOKER]

Good video. I liked it, it was very interesting. It surprised me. I would have expected a couple FPS difference.

I make 8 strand 8125 for all my bows (50-55lb), and use small (1.5") strands of wool yarn for scilencers, pad the loops to 16, and double serve. Some of my bows had 12 strand d97 & 8125 others had thicker strings of unknown materials. I have shot my bows through the crono but not to compair strings.

All I can say is that all my bows are now quieter, faster, and have less hand shock. I haven't used a crono, Db meter or strain gauge to measure these benifits. I used my eyes, ears, and sore sholder. And since I am the one that shoots the bows and gets enjoyment from shooting the bows I am very happy with the change.

With the right string, arrow's, and proper tuning a bow can go from a clunkey stick and string to a sweet smooth work of dynamic art. This is why we play with these things. Isn't that right George?  

Steve

[James on laptop]

Well I guess I am lucky but at those speeds I can easily tell when one is faster than the other.If you think 7fps is not enough to see why do guys shoot bows as heavy as they do? Why not just shoot a lighter bow if you can't tell any difference in how fast an arrow is flying anyway?     I love it when people say a little speed is nothing and they shoot 55-60lb bows for deer hunting.If performance was not important why would you shoot a heavier bow in the first place?  

[FlintRiverKen]

When i said i could see 7 fps I didnt mean i could stand by the tartget and resolve fractional seconds of passing arrows like the counters and atomic clock we have here at the lab- what i meant was:

Before the hurt shoulder when I loosed an arrow from the 55#widow MA2 i couldnt tell a whole lot about the arrow flight from 20yds and under- just bam and its sticking in the targ.

Now that I'm working with 40-45# bows and 13gpp arrows i have a lot more opportunity to observe porposing, fishtailing and whatnot. I got used to seeing the flight of an arrow with a particular bow and B50 string, then ordered a skinny SDB string and immediately could see the same arrow flying flatter and sinking in deeper. No super eyes involved, i think anybody could see it.
When i got the chrony I found i could measure what i was seeing. I'll be repeating the experiment if it ever stops snowing and raining here, and if i can stop shooting that new Dryad Windtalker  

[LBR]

Thanks--details are a bugger.  I don't think I could see 2/10th's of a second, much less 2/100ths.

I never said performance isn't important.  The fact of the matter is 3-7 fps isn't a deal breaker for most any of us.  Nothing wrong with picking up a few fps, but if you are relying on an extra 3-7 fps to make the difference in a kill or a wound, IMO you need to change weapons.  

To answer the question, I started shooting heavier weights because I thought I needed to.  When I started there were no internet gurus to consult (there was no internet), and I didn't know anyone in my area that shot traditional bows.  Over the years I learned more and dropped down in draw weight.  I found that I have a lousy release with a light draw weight, and rather than work on my release I opted to shoot a little more weight because it gave me a cleaner release and I'm comfortable with it.  

I finally settled on a bow and have been shooting it for around 15 years now, and when I get another one I'm going to drop at least 10# of draw weight (my release has improved a bit).  FWIW, my selfbows (that I just started shooting a few years ago) are lighter in draw weight than my main bow, and they are nowhere near as fast.  I know without a doubt they will do the job just as well, as long as I do my part.  I've shot higher scores at tournaments with my selfbow vs. a much faster longbow.  Go figure.

Now, the flip side to your question.  If speed/performance is the be-all-end-all, why shoot/hunt with a traditional bow?  There are much faster/better performing weapons available.  If 3-7 fps is so important, why not use a weapon that is 100+ to 1,000+ fps faster?

It's a rhetorical question--no reply needed.

[Don Stokes]

The advantage of lighter strings for me became apparent when I found that going from 16 strand FF to 12 strand FF required about 5# more spine on my 65# r/d longbow and resulted in a few fps increase in speed through a chrono with the same weight arrow. Shooting wood, that meant to me that I could shoot a stiffer and heavier arrow at the same speed as a lighter one, which is a hunting advantage.

My bare-shafting experience (I tuned hundreds of people and their bows when I was in the arrow shaft business) taught me that you have to retune for a significant change in string weight, whether it's a different strand count, different string material, more or less serving, or different weight string silencers. Changing the position of string silencers affects tuning, too. Every change affects tuning, and tuning is critical to arrow speed and performance.

[FlintRiverKen]

Easy answer. Trad because there's more to it than performance only. The light beautiful wood bow is alive in my hand. I enjoy looking at it as much as shooting it. Thats why i gave up wheelbows. Same with the POC arrows i make. On the other hand, best new science from this excellent council of elders on Tradgang on subjects like higher FOC and skinny strings just makes it more enjoyable for me and I know I'm not alone.

[Bob Morrison]

We supply on all our new bows 8 strand D97 and soon D10 8 strand. My personal bows I shoot 6 strand. I couldn't tell you anything about increase in speed, I suspect they is an icrease. But the sound alone convinced me that was the string to use. It doesn't require a meter to tell a difference. 2 year ago I was hunting with 6 strand 8125( Super skinny) hunted Texas and Ohio all season, had 2 dry fires sting did fine..
    Looks like a lot of wasted time on this subject. Shoot what you want and don't keep trying to convince me I need a fat string, Been ther done that. Main fact the 8 strand and under is quieter period and may pick up some speed,if so good.

[LBR]

Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall you have a bit of hearing loss?

If you can't hear a dog whistle, does that mean it makes no sound?

Obviously a lot of us don't feel like it's a waste of time at all.  I love these discussions, because I learn from them and hopefully others do also.

Nobody has tried to convince anyone that they "need" a "fat string".  My goal is simply to point out there are trade-offs, and nothing is "free".  Obviously some don't mind the trade offs, while others do.  Same 'ol same 'ol--we all have our preferances, there's no one perfect anything for everyone.  

Remember Nitro Excellerant?  That's one of the reasons I try and find out as much as I can before jumping onto any bandwagon--so I don't wind up using or offering an inferior product like that was.

[BighornTn]

What happened with Nitro Excellerant Chad? Was that not a good string material? That came out in 1998 if I remember correctly?  Rick J

[LBR]

IMO it was junk.  I tinkered with it and found that, to me, it wasn't worth making a string with.  It was taken off the market--didn't last too long as best I remember.  Made by Western Filiments.  

It was a braided material, and I talked to at least one person where it broke with no warning--seems the braid worked against itself and cut itself.

However, when it first came out a few folks really pushed it (on a different site - pre TG).  First impressions were good, especially about it being quiet.  It was made from HMPE and Carrera--very similar to materials like 450+ and Ultra Cam, except those aren't braided.  It was rated as very strong, and one of the first materials I saw used in a small string--at least it was considered tiny then (8 strands of 450+ was considered tiny then too).

Chad

[Jeff Strubberg]

You know, Chad makes a point that bears repeating.  WE think our bows are quieter...that doesn't mean DEER think they are quieter.

Kinda like camoflage.  We know what makes hunter hard for us to see...we are guessing what makes hunters hard for deer to see.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
You know, Chad makes a point that bears repeating.  WE think our bows are quieter...that doesn't mean DEER think they are quieter.

Kinda like camoflage.  We know what makes hunter hard for us to see...we are guessing what makes hunters hard for deer to see.

exactly.

which is why i posted a question asking if audio frequency plays any part in a bow string's noise, 'cause deer will more than likely hear that string/arrow release.

[LBR]

Spot on Jeff.  We know deer are faster than any bow.  We know that some of the absolute spookiest deer (we have some of them here in MS, TX has their fair share, etc.) have been killed by some very noisy bows.  

I like a quiet bow myself.  I tune for a quiet bow.  I get comments at tournament about how quiet my bow is.  I feel more confident with a quiet bow.  Even if I have my bow totally silent, the arrow still makes a heck of a racket going downrange.  Do the animals care?  I really have no idea.  

I don't believe camo is nearly as effective as we are led to believe, at least with animals.  Deer have natural predators that have better camo than anything we can manufacture.  However, it makes us feel better to wear it.  Kinda' like fishing lures--meant more to fool the fisherman than the fish.

Chad

[MSwickard]

Kinda' like fishing lures--meant more to fool the fisherman than the fish.
 

Classic!

[Rob DiStefano]

spot on, chad.          

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by MSwickard:
 

Kinda' like fishing lures--meant more to fool the fisherman than the fish.
 

Classic! [/b]

My maternal grandmother used to tell me that, God rest her soul. Years later I came to understand that she wasn't just talking about fishing lures.  

[Bob Morrison]

Chad I'm not deaf yet        But I can hear a difference. And I also know that most game will hear things we don't. We are never going to get a string quiet enought to fool wild animals, Fact.. There are several things I like about skinny string, I real don't need string silencers, I do put on 1" rubber, I don't like the twang after the shot. And for less than $ 20 you can try and string you what, and decide what you or I like,,,,And that doesn't mean everyone has to shoot what you or I like. Chad you are a custom string maker, If I want a 2 strand you tell me why not, but if that is what I want,,,, I get it with NO garrantee it will work.(Or you just refuse to build it). Only one thing for sure you do need a string to shoot your bow.

[LC]

Ok I'm perplexed here then. So Chad and everyone else why are you so dilegent in tuning for quiet if it really doesn't matter? Why wear camo if it doesn't work?  All good questions. Why waste money on string silencers?  Funny ain't it how we all chase our own tail sometimes.

There was a thread that passed through recently something along the line of "whats all the hype of skinny strings about". It brought back memories of several years back when myself and a very few others touted the benefits of carbon arrows! Man you'd have thought we was the anti christ! Even some of my best friends laughed at me then. Funny how that turned out. Oh well I'll bet Fred Bear caught some hell the first time he suggested manufacturing bows with GLASS!

AGAINST all odds I'll go on record and say I like the "speed" from my skinny string. Ok there I said it, throw me out with the bath water. But first what that speed means is that the bow, if using the same arrow weight, is now more efficient! It will shoot flatter and penetrate deeper! It's like shooting a 5 lb heavier bow or pulling another inch or so draw length. Or now you can shoot a heavier arrow with the same trajectory.Who wouldn't want that? Yeah but the nay sayers say "yeah but at what cost"?  Noiser bow, more hand shock,  but the answer seems to be consistently the OPPOSITE. But still there is the nonbelievers. I guess in the end like everything else it's up to the individual to decide what works for them. It will be interesting to see if 10 years from now there will be a thread for ol timers to recollect and remember the FAT strings or ropes we use to use! lol

[Gordon martiniuk]

I agree with Bob and Chad I like skinny strings for only one reason make my bow as quiet as it can be! for me a more quiet bow is a more in tune bow with less vibration and shock, to me that is part of a good bow tune properly splined arrows with enough weight to harness as much energy as I can to the arrow,oh yea almost forgot a Whitetail allways hears your bow go off how much noise he hears will change his reaction a great deal so a more quiet shot allways pays off for Me