Fred Eichler-Amazing Recurve Shot!

[Zbearclaw]

If you were to watch Freds shows you would see quite a few that he doesn't get a shot in each season.  Or you see his misses, he is very honest in what he shows and one of the reasons many like myself prefer his show over all the rest and would share a camp with him anytime.

A quartering to shot is just a backward quartering away shot.

On steeper quartering away shots the rear leg poses more of an issue, in my opinion than the front shoulder does on a quartering to shot with the same relative angle to the vitals.  

My issue with a quartering to shot is more to do with the animal sensing something or not.

To each his own.

[bayoulongbowman]

yEP, HE SHOOTS 54# AT HIS DRAW!!!!

[SDHNTR]

New guy here but I feel compelled to post on this topic.  Anyone questioning Fred's ethics is way off base.  In fact, I consider them fightin' words.  You weren't there.  You don't know what he is capable of either.  I have shot side by side with the man under a little friendly competition.  I consider myself to be an excellent shot and guess what, he almost beat me, and I was shooting a COMPOUND!.  I have never seen a better trad shot than Fred.  He is capable of that shot and then some.  Furthermore, he wouldn't take any shot he didn't know he could make.  Lastly, he smoked that coues perfectly, so if he isn't here to tell the naysayers to pound sand, I'll do it.  SCOREBOARD!  More importantly, Fred is a hell of a good guy.  We need more  people like him in our industry.  Heck, we need more people like him in our country!

[NDTerminator]

Got an email back from Fred this morning. Palmer or Hoyt recurve  54# at his 30.5" draw, Axis 400's, 4" feathers, standard alum inserts, Muzzy Phantom 125s.  My guess of an arrow of about 500 grains was right on the money.  Advised he uses this set up on every critter he hunted/hunts in NA.

The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads..  Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer....

[Chris Shelton]

Well Doc never said we HAD to use high FOC, or ultra heavy arrows, he just advises it.  Bowhunters for years have been using set ups like that.  I think it is interesting though, because his FOC is probably pretty low???  With the added weight of the wrap in the back!

[George D. Stout]

"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...."      

Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.  

Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"  

Compared to whose rules?   8^))))))))).  His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well.  Better than very well.      

In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot.  That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff.  Of course Dr. Ashby's study has merit and is still a work in progress. There is more than one way of doing things; however, one does not negate the value of the other.....
           

[mrpenguin]

Originally posted by NDTerminator:
Got an email back from Fred this morning. Palmer or Hoyt recurve  54# at his 30.5" draw, Axis 400's, 4" feathers, standard alum inserts, Muzzy Phantom 125s.  My guess of an arrow of about 500 grains was right on the money.  Advised he uses this set up on every critter he hunted/hunts in NA.

The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads..  Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer....

This just reminds me that the tackle is only a part of the equation and that sometimes I get FAR to wrapped up in my gear when I just need to go shoot and have a good time!

That said I DO find I shoot better with an EFOC tuned arrow... but that's what works for me    

[amicus]

George, I didn't mean to imply that a 35 yrd shot was impossible. At my skill level I would not feel comfortable with that shot. In all honesty, It doesent mean I would not have taken the shot.

Freds show is the only show that I record. Thats because I like him and have a great deal of respect for him. Most of the other shows are filled with fake drama and what the sponsers feel is important, which is $$$$$$.
Just my .02.

Gilbert

[Chris Shelton]

Originally posted by George D. Stout:
Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"  

Compared to whose rules?   8^))))))))).  His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well.  Better than very well.          

well compared to the recent studies about EFOC it is low.  However it is not low compared to the set up used the past decades as you have already said.  The set up I used on my first deer was a 40# recurve, a easton explorer carbon shaft, approximatly 390 total grains  :eek: , and the if that were a bad shot I would have been screwed.  Fortunatly it was a absolutely perfect shot and the buck ran 80 yards down the mountain and dropped.

docs studies are for us humans who could possibly put in a bad shot.  They are by no means to make up for terrible shooting, but if you have a good FOC set up, and you screw up and all of us are human.  The FOC should help humanely harvest your quarry.

Anyway, basically my statement was saying that he could add brass inserts and easily double his FOC!  But from watching Fred, he seems like a "if it aint broke dont fix it" kinda guy, and obviously his set up is workin just fine.  I am a "it can always be improved" kinda guy, so I am always looking to make my mouse trap better  

[NDTerminator]

I'm going to be trying some 100 grain brass inserts in my CXTH's for the sole reason it should allow me to use 100 grain points and still get in the 520 grain range with the spine I need.  100 grain points means a huge selection of readily available fixed & replaceable blade broadheads, a good number of which I have on hand...

[wv lungbuster]

I've used the brass inserts and lighter broadheads,but went back to using heavy heads and aluminum inserts just for durability of the heavier broadheads. Most 100 gain heads are weak.

[Chris Shelton]

ND that is why I went the brass route, but I would imagine that Fred with his 30" draw doesnt have to worry about that, a fellow like you or I that wants there arrows cut to length(29.5), needs some way to keep there total mass up, and I am very partial to the WIDE selection of 100 grain broadheads!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...."          

Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.  

Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"  

Compared to whose rules?   8^))))))))).  His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well.  Better than very well.          

In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot.  That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff.  

 

It's unfortunate that folks have to point out that what's worked for decades still works today...as if we actually forgot what it takes to kill an animal.

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
ND that is why I went the brass route, but I would imagine that Fred with his 30" draw doesnt have to worry about that, a fellow like you or I that wants there arrows cut to length(29.5), needs some way to keep there total mass up, and I am very partial to the WIDE selection of 100 grain broadheads!

Damn, great minds DO think alike...  

[Chris Shelton]

yes indeed.  BTW 100 grains of brass up front-  Defiantly worth it!!!  went from my LOW, low arrow weight of 347 grains total to 447, and 18.64% FOC, absolutely no difference in arrow flight.  The only difference was that obviously the arrow shot a ting slower.  But it only took me like 4 shots to readjust!

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
yes indeed.  BTW 100 grains of brass up front-  Defiantly worth it!!!  went from my LOW, low arrow weight of 347 grains total to 447, and 18.64% FOC, absolutely no difference in arrow flight.  The only difference was that obviously the arrow shot a ting slower.  But it only took me like 4 shots to readjust!

You added 100 grains to the front of an arrow and saw "absolutely no difference in arrow flight?" Not to sidetrack this discussion, but did you bare shaft tune those arrows? You can't just add 100 grains to the front of an arrow shaft and not change the dynamic spine.

[Bowspirit]

Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
 

Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...."          

Fred is the one in the spotlight right now, but there are a lot of very successful bowhunters nowadays, who don't use any special, EFOC, buildup.  

Chris says, "his front of center is pretty low?"  

Compared to whose rules?   8^))))))))).  His front of center is what nearly all bowhunters used for decades, and have done very well.  Better than very well.          

In the 1960's we understood mass, perfect arrow flight, and sharp broadheads....and the ability to hit the right spot.  That formula still does the job on any game you will ever hunt....including very large stuff.  

 

It's unfortunate that folks have to point out that what's worked for decades still works today...as if we actually forgot what it takes to kill an animal. [/b]

Something anyone who wields a recurve or longbow should understand very well...

[amicus]

Originally posted by George D. Stout:
"The most successful traditional bowwhunter of our times does nothing special. No EFOC, extra weight, or special single bevel broadheads.. Just a meat & potatoes, relatively inexpensive, everyday Joe setup, in the hands of an extremely capable hunter/archer...."  

I don't know about that. I would think that any succesful traditional bowhunter would have tinkered with his set up to get the best arrow flight he could possible get with what ever materials and knowledge was available at that time. Its not like they just stopped at wally world and picked up a bunch of .25 arrows and started hitting bulleyes at 50 yrds. I just don't see that.

A lot people think that our ancesters just pick up any ole stick and used it as an arrow or any old rock and made a broadhead. I would imagine that after much trial and error they found out what works best with what materials they had at that time, as well. In my opinon this is just commen sense.

Gilbert

[muley40]

Fred is heck of a hunter, I enjoyed his interview in Masters of Barebow 2 he keeps things simple thats the way it should be,

[Terry Green]

I'm  glad Fred is in our sport and is it well.

Sad this thread about the man had to de-rail into another science project argument.     :rolleyes: