Introducing the Black Swan Wave FD Charts added

[BMG]

Originally posted by vermonster13:
We'll stick with them for independent testing.

Independent because they get paid?  Its their job and they do it well.

[Bob L.]

"There can be faster bows made but I like to shoot mine more than a dozen times. Alot of those speed bows are not sold to the public because they are not durable enough. These Black Swans are not fragile. They are tough as nails for years of hunting."

You need to check the results from last year. There's a bow called the Centaur which a customer sent in, that is sold to the public and was at the top of the event. I hear it is pretty durable.

[vermonster13]

Yes they are professionals and know how to standardize testing and they get published. If you guys want a bow you can order one from Arvid. I don't sell them, he does.

[tyee]

250 spine? I know of two arrows of that kinda spine what arrow was used? A 250 spine would be close to 125 lb spine. This can not be needed on any trad bow that is 50# .It is just physics
and if the bow hasnt been tuned and no arrows can be found to shoot out of it how do we know it is the fastest ever produced. And of course no mention of Bill Stewart here who originated this design 30 years ago.

[Greg Owen]

I already own one Black Swan bow. It is a one piece hybrid and it is fantastic. Also, to set the record straight, I didn't see anyone say this bow is the 'fastest ever produced'. If I remember right, the statement was 'fastest Arvid has made'. I might be misremembering though. Anyway, I have mine on order and I am excitedly waiting for it. Thanks Vermonster13 for sharing your opinions on this bow. I am sure it will be fun to shoot.

[tyee]

Fasted Arvid has produced is correct, but the above still holds true as far as tuning

[vermonster13]

Originally posted by tyee:
250 spine? I know of two arrows of that kinda spine what arrow was used? A 250 spine would be close to 125 lb spine. This can not be needed on any trad bow that is 50# .It is just physics
and if the bow hasnt been tuned and no arrows can be found to shoot out of it how do we know it is the fastest ever produced. And of course no mention of Bill Stewart here who originated this design 30 years ago.

On page 4 I mention both Bill Stewart and Mon River who had similar but much less pronounced designs. I also draw 3o+" on this bow and carbons seem to lose spine much quicker at longer lengths than aluminums.

[tyee]

missed the Stewart on 4 my fault there but you said you shot a carbon arrow 250 spine.There is only two arrows that I know of that spine at 250 full metal jacket dangerous game 250. and 2712 tha is it the 2712 spines at 260. the fmj has carbon with alum and of course a 2712 isnt carbon so I eat crow for sure on the Bill Stewart comment as for tuning I stand by my remarks but what shaft you used would add insight. Also as for carbon loosing spine faster I just tested that
a 31 inch 2117 400 deflection and a beman ics hunter 400 deflection 31 inches spanned 2 pound weight center point movement was the same, but a interesting note on this is the shaft with the larger diameter would loose a touch less in terms of spine because diameter pushes it out from the riser so I think that with that said a carbon would loose spine faster or to say it right a skinny shaft would loose spine faster than a large one

[Big Ed]

I did not shoot these bows through a chrono at the Bunny Hunt, But I can honestly tell you that they performed very well with my Axis 300 with 200 grns up front. Very impressive to say the least. As with any other invention, many will contradict, many will copy, most will not give recognition. It is what makes bowyers that push the envelope to keep driving forward. We are not talking of breaking the speed of sound, but trying to make the most efficient equipment available. Shoot what works and makes you happy, Just my 2 cents, Big Ed

[vermonster13]

The shafts are ACC 300s and Victory 250s. These where shot with the limbs mounted on the back mount riser and with a 7" brace pulling about 56# at my draw.

Thanks Ed. The limbs were on the Belly mount at JLMBH and shot the Grizzly Alaskans with 200 up front pretty well. The bow scales 48 at 30 on that riser.

Thanks Ed.

By the way Tyee, did you spine test the arrows spaced at 30" or 28". I am saying longer carbon shafts seem to have less spine than longer aluminum shafts.

[HATCHCHASER]

"You need to check the results from last year. There's a bow called the Centaur which a customer sent in, that is sold to the public and was at the top of the event. I hear it is pretty durable."


 I did look at that thread and you are correct.  Very impressive.  If you go back through the traditional bowhunter magazines and look at the bow reviews you will see the Centaur and the Black Swan are within a fps of each other.  The tests done by Blacky are the most standardized of any I have seen.  The fastest bow I have read his review on is the Predator recurve which was one fps faster than the ACS and 2 fps faster than the Black Swan.  I know Centaurs are nice durable bows as are many others.  Nobody said this was the fastest bow made only the fastest Arvid has made to date.  I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

[tyee]

I spined the arrows at 29.75 inches read my post carefully and you will see a basically agreed with you on the carbon loosing spine deal they don't loose spine any faster because they are carbon it is cause they are smaller in diameter
 And now alot of things make sense a victory 250 is not 250 spine at all that is just a number designation similar to the numbers on carbon express it has nothing to do with deflection. I believe they are 400 spine I will double check this and report back, easton 300 with 200 up front makes sense and I can see it tuning. grizzstick alaskan is 400 spine as well with that 60grn insert and a 200grn tip I can see that flying out of that bow really well. So something are alot more clear. In the other post made it sound like a arrow spined at 250 wasnt stiff enough well it was a 250 victory that spines at 400 and I can jive with that. so thats it. I would like to try this bow but no test drive and no 30 day buy back

[Greg Owen]

When I get mine maybe we can get together and see how it shoots.  I am looking forward to the bow.

[tyee]

sound good Greg

[anw0625]

HATCHCHASER What issue was that?

[anw0625]

tyee here is victory spines

Arrow Size     GPI     Spine     Length
X-Ringer .250    9.1    .250    30"
X-Ringer .350    7.6    .350    30"

[HATCHCHASER]

I don't remember which issue.  Each bow was in a different issue.  I know the Centaur, Black Swan, ACS, and Predator have all been in TBM.  I know they have been the fastest tested with Blacky's standards.  There are a few more that are real close.  And maybe some he tested that did not go into TBM.  I know he has a few on his site that I would like to see the numbers on.  I have every issue since 2007.  Unfortunatley they are packed up in storage cause we just moved.

[anw0625]

I know that Centaur's are great bows and Jim is a great guy, I just don't want to wait 14+ months to get a bow and that is why I am looking very heavily into black swan.  Just can't decide btw the 1 or 3 piece hybrid or the wave.

[HATCHCHASER]

My next one will be a classic longbow.  

[Jesse Peltan]

I won't fall in love with, nor will I discredit the wave until I see some amo testing.  Now I will say that a 34#@28 bow pulling 1-2# per inch is nothing special.  Almost every 34# bow pulls 1-2# per inch.  Pulling 3# per inch from 28-32 shows a sudden increase in the rate of draw weight progression, or stacking.  So that would mean the bow is average out to 28 and stacks past that.  These numbers lead me to believe that the bow at 60# would pull about 2.5-3.5# per inch to 28(average) and 5.25# per inch from 28-32.  5.25# per inch does not scream smooth to me.  Now this is just predicted draw weight progression. AMO testing could prove otherwise, but I won't believe it until I see it.