Introducing the Black Swan Wave FD Charts added

[Jesse Peltan]

Looking at the design I think I know why the wave is making it more efficient.  The first half of the limb(coming of the riser) is a short deflex reflex longbow limb.  This short deflex reflex limb reflexs almost all the way back to in line with the fades.  It forms sorta a c shape which is very stiff and why we use deflex reflex in longbows.  The second half is just a recurve lever that smooths out the draw and allows the first half to reflex so far.  So this allows you to store more energy.  The forward riser and outer levers make the bow draw smoothly.  The ceramic matrix, carbon, and foam also help with efficiency.  So Arvid good job on the design.  This is just my theory on why the limbs work.  What were you thinking of when you came up with them?

[Jesse Peltan]

Wow 11.5! I know a way to get the string off the limbs without changing stability or brace height but I can't give away all my secrets.  To comment on my theory the only way to really know is to see unstrung, strung, and full draw photo's, maybe some slow motion video too.  BTW I put limbsavers on my bows too in case of a dry fire, broken nock, and just to prevent stress cracks in the long run.

[vitalinvader]

I think I'm in love.  Can't wait for the 58 incher. Arvid said that would still be fine at 29-1/2".  He said he still needs to do a little more testing on the ILF(DAS) platform.  Hows the spine working out at 90% plus, need new arrows?

[helo]

Wild looking bow!Cant wait to hear more about it.  

[vermonster13]

I'm not Arvid. I just take care of things for him on the web nowadays. He's a good friend of mine and I help him with testing and such. These limbs were actually designed on a super computer back when he was a lead engineer for a large computer company. He has another similar design the computer did that is supposed to be even faster in theory but won't be as smooth. These limbs are extremely stable and tortionally strong. An excellent design if the looks don't scare you off.

[vermonster13]

It likes a seriously stiff spine. ACC 300s with 100 up front worked ok until about 28 yards when they showed weak. The CX Trads in the pic had 145 up front and were good out to about the 20 yards that pic was of. I tried some Victory 250s, but at 31" they were way to weak. Seems that some carbons lose spine faster than others.

[Got2strum]

Neat ! Looks to me like it could have been called the Black Swan Kudu     Kinda reminds me of Kudu horns.

[cch]

That looks real similar to Bill Stewart's bow's, they were fast and stable also. I don't think his had as much bend to it. I will be interested in the speeds you are getting.

[KentuckyWolf]

Weird. Any difference in how it handles heavy vs. light arrows?

[vermonster13]

I need to experiment some more with it, but it's hard having an arrow stiff enough for my draw and getting some good weight on it so far. I mean having to shoot 300 spine ACCs with 125 up front on a 48@30 bow makes it tough to get 10 grains a pound or more like I like.

[Orion]

Vermonster, are you saying these limbs can be mounted on the belly or back of the riser, depending on the riser's construction.  If so, there's nothing else out there like that that I'm aware of.

[pitbull]

Looks like another winner for Arvid. I just got my new 56" recurve with the carbon foam limbs and didn't think that could be topped for shootability and scary accuracy. Glad to see the passion for improvement. Give us a review when you get a chance.

[vtmtnman]

Originally posted by coaster500:
Looks like a snake, just needs some skins    

The wave would look killer with skins over it.

[vermonster13]

Orion I'll post pics of the limbs on a back mount riser tomorrow. They gain 5#s in draw weight when used on that riser. All of Arvid's new limbs are interchangeable between the two risers. It's nice to be able to drop or gain 5#s on a set of limbs just by switching risers and having the grip stay the same.

[Jesse Peltan]

I know your not Arvid but that your helping him out.  Engineered by a computer.  I wonder what it's reasoning was for that limb design.  Do you happen to know what the design was that would be faster?  Also when you mean smooth do you mean linear draw force curve or flat?  I like the draw force curve as flat as possible so that other design might be perfect for me.

[Jesse Peltan]

Sorry that should say "Do you happen to know what the design was that would be faster than the wave?"

[vermonster13]

I know the reasons and for now need to keep them to myself. Never know when another new design may be coming out of Tucson.    

Arvid wrote the program that the computer crunched the numbers on to arrive at this design by the way.

[Jesse Peltan]

Any chance black swan will make one of the other faster designs in the future?

[vermonster13]

Arvid has never been known to not push the envelope. Like in all things though, you have to make some money to raise R&D money. The tester is ready to go through the process as always. lol

[Jesse Peltan]

LOL thanks for the info.