Tonkin Cane Arrow shafts, Another stupid question added

[fireball31]

Has anybody used them.  I just noticed them in my new kustom king catalog.  How much do they weigh on average.  Do you have to set them up with a hardwood footing?

[Killdeer]

Somebody wake up Stringstretcher.  

Killdeer

[Maxximusgrind]

I noticed them too,
They are kinda pricey,was wondering what the benefits are-I am guessing they are strong.
    Robert

[highplains55]

ive been shooting cane all winter,they are strong, straightness issues and was going to self
nock but lots of work so just put on glueon nocks
and points,heavier and stiffer than my cedars and
hexpines but vey pretty, if you get cane make
sure they are straight cause you can't make em
get straight ,good luck,doug

[BernieH]

I don't have any of the Kustom King shafts but I have played around with a few that I got from a guy in Alabama a few years ago.

They're pretty thick on the front end so I just tapered them and hot melted on a regular field point. I cut in self nocks which I reinforced by tying unwaxed floss just ahead of the bottom of the nock groove.

Some of these weren't straight when I got them but I did straighten them out by applying heat with a clothes iron. Just make contact with the iron at the node that needs straightening and the 'boo will "plasticize" becoming quite pliable. Then simply sight down the shaft and straighten using your hands.

[jerry r baker]

well the indianans used them for more years tham man can count
cant be to much wrong with them

[MercilessMing]

I bought 100 pcs for $80 (+$45 shipping) from the Internet aucton site.  They came in 33" length.  Very straight.  About 5-6 of them have cracks, but that does not seem to affect the strength.  Those I bought are spec at 40#-45#.  But they are measured about 48#-55# on my spine tester.  Pretty consistent across all the shafts.  The mass weight varies from 300gr to 420gr.  Mostly between 340 to 400gr.  I was able to group them into 7 dozens based on 10grs group.

The cane shafts are naturely tapered.  The larger end is about 5/16" tapered down to slightly larger than 1/4".  I usually cut from the smaller end to 28".  The shafts will lose about 45gr-50gr for the 5" I cut.

Canes came dried and straightened.  The canes are hollow with knots.  I did drill and plug few of them with skewers (the skewers are bamboo too).  Some of them I just fill the hole with small amount of 5min Epoxy.  I used sanding jig for the tapering.  Using the shaver style tool almost guaranteed cracking the canes because of the blade caught the grain.  The shafts seems too small to do self nock.  Maybe the heavier spine ones will be thick enough for self nock.  I used excessive Epoxy at the point end and wipe out the extra Epoxy to fill and form a smoother transition from point to the shaft.

With cresting, lacquer, 5" shield feather, 100gr points and nock each arrow weight 430gr.  They flew straight and grouped well. Some of my friends shot the arrows and they felt the same as I did.  So they split 3 dozens with me from my order.

[Bowferd]

I've been using them for about 2 years and have been pleased with the results. Purchased 6 dz from 2 different suppliers and there is a remarkable difference in quality.
Latest batch I ordered spined between 60-70 and they weighed in from 390 to 510 but were very consistent in diameter and spine.
Typically 8-9mm in diameter and cut to 33".
I leave them full length, self nocks reinforced with 30 or 70# sinew in front of the nock.
I open the cavity in frint to accept a 1/8" nail or rod weighing in at 90-100gr and then use a 5 degree taper if adding field points or glue on broadheads. If installing trade points I will wrap the foreshaft with sinew.
I also epoxy in the trade point and always coat the sinew with my water based super glue after wrapping.  
Fletching I have used a water based super glue or fletching tape, both with good results.

[Maxximusgrind]

I have made some from river cane,its not the same species is it?
 Robert

[Mechslasher]

i've been making and shooting cane arrows for about eight years.  once you start shooting cane, you won't shoot anything else.  most of the retailers are selling tonkin cane.  it's an excellent species for arrows because it is tough and has a smaller diameter than other species.  tonkin is also used in fly rods.  not all species of cane are equal.  tonkin is great but it can be brittle compared to my favorites species of sasa and japanese arrow bamboo.  i think this is because tonkin is treated and dried overseas, which can make it brittle.  i've had hogs and deer fall on sasa and not break it.  in fact, i've only had two cane arrows to be broken on a hunt.  one was chewed on by a hog before he died.  he didn't acutally break it, just cracked it.  the other was broken when i led a trotting deer too much and it was broken when it flew between her front legs, snapping it.  i've used just about all of the wood species out there and none can hold a candle to cane for straightness, durability, and flight characteristics.  i can continue on with the physics of canes "built in" taper and foc but i'll save it for later.  i actually wrote a "how to" article on making cane arrows for bowyer's journal a couple years ago that i now have in a booklet.  pm me if you have more questions.

[JC]

The late Allen Varnell, formerly Cheapshot here on Tradgang which his widow Tomi now uses, gave me 4 cane arrows he had built for one of my bows. As a die hard carbon fan, they are a close second to them as an arrow material. Certainly superior to wood and even aluminum in my opinion. I wish I had taken the time to sit under his tutelage and learn how he made them, perfection in cane arrows. I'm not sure how much a dozen of his cane arrows finally went for at a shoot auction prior to his death...but Ron LaClair was outbid if that tells you anything about them.

Chris, the majority of cane arrows I've seen have just been from our local river cane or cane patches you sometimes see around old homesteads. Is there more than one species in our neck of the woods? How do those compare with the two you mentioned?

[stringstretcher]

Most all of the tonkin cane I have played with, are smaller in daimeter, and almost solid.  I have made several, that I have to us a 1/4 nock on them because there is not room for a self nock.  There is a place where you can buy a bundle of 500 for a pretty good price, but you will get a lot of light poundage arrows from it, but still well worth the money.  Get Mechslasher's book, he leared from the best, trust me.  I like Jap arrow boo a lot, because that is what I can get more of easily, and it makes for a larger diameter shaft which will let me forshaft them.  I have never seen a tonkin cane big enough for medium weight bows that you can forshaft.  Just my thoughts.

[fireball31]

My lack of spine tester is the reason I'm looking at getting the kustom kings.  Another question.  Do you use a normal fletching jig or do they need to be tied in.  Thanks again guys.

[Jeremy]

Just fletch 'em normal.  I have 2 dz bamboo shafts headed my way now, and about the same number of cane shafts in various stages in my shop.

[frank bullitt]

I shot and hunted with my first river cane arrows this past year! Yes, natures carbon shaft for sure! If they grew in my area, probably wouldn't shoot anything else! They are tough! Shot "true and thru" a nice 130 lb. doe!

I spoke with a lady from Alabama, who was shootin tonkin cane arrows from, I think, the same supplier as the ones K.K. are selling. She loved them. I don't think you could get any better.

There are alot of species of cane, and the tonkin seem to be pretty good. Richard Jackson, aka Flatstick, I'm pretty sure, has been shootin tonkin cane for a while and has taken some "Dandy" whitetails!

[fireball31]

I certainly appreciate the opinions guys.  Makes the decision to pull the trigger on them much easier.

[Mechslasher]

rc, there are only a few native species of bamboo in the u.s.  Bamboo (A. gigantica), river cane (A. tecta), and hill cane ( A. appalachian?).  the last is new and still debated.  to fully differentiate between the species of bamboo can sometimes take a PhD. in botany, seriously!  for example, the only definite way to tell the difference between gigantica and tecta, is to dig up a rhizome and cut into it.  one has a pith, the other doesn't.  people brought dozens of different species of bamboo over in the early 1900's for decoration.  about the same time they brought kudzu, we can see how that worked out.  river cane is what most indian tribes used.  the only thing i have against river cane, other than being the hardest to straighten, is to get an arrow that will spine around 55#, the nock end will be around 1/4".  i've used 1/4" plastic nocks, but these will sometimes break if using a bow over 55#.  i've had better luck using antler or horn nocks on river cane.  if you take your time, you can drill the nock end out and slip a carbon shaft nock in river cane.  japanese arrow bamboo is the most elegant and most beautiful of the arrow bamboo.  guess that's why the samurai used it.  sasa is as tough as steel and will almost straighten itself when heated.  it has the thickest walls and will take the most abuse.  it has a splotched look which some people don't like, it think it gives the arrow some character.  with a sasa arrow, if you can't kill it with the pointy end, you can use the arrow to beat it to death.  i have a pair of sasa arrows i'm planning on entering in the 3 river contest that i'll post a pic of on here later tonight.

[Kanuck]

I just got some bamboo arrows from Glacier Traditional Archery through Rudderbows.  They are a lot slicker and straighter than I expected.  Weight variation is pretty wide compared to the weight matched woodies I'm used to but I don't think it will cause a problem for my shooting.  Unfortunately, the all bamboo bow I ordered these for isn't here yet so the arrows sit patiently waiting...

[Rob DiStefano]

now i've got the bug - gotta build some grass arrows.

[Mechslasher]

here are a few pics of some i've built.  the first is a set of tonkin with plastic nocks i just finished. the second is a set of sasa bamboo with antler nocks.  the one with the obsidian point has taken a 75# boar and the small game arrow has taken a rabbit and squirrel.  the third is japanese arrow bamboo with antler nocks.  i've taken two deer and a hog with this set.