Wood arrow FOC and how much?

[mnbearbaiter]

Hey guys! How much front of center do most of you shoot with wooden arrows, and what % seems to be the best for overall arrow flight and penetration? I have heard that 10-15% is recommended for good arrow flight, but how much do you guys prefer for hunting? My last dozen arrows i made were 14.5% FOC and flew like darts, just thought id get a few answers and see what others had!

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Don't worry about it. Just tune it up with the right weight head, and go hunting. Unless you use Woodyweights or the drilling jig, you're not going to get a real big percentage. Most people just use standard weight broadheads glued-on with great success.

[Bjorn]

As soon as you shart to get anywhere near high enough you'll be out of spine. Do as Ben says!

[mnbearbaiter]

Well not really!!! Most arrows dont gain in weight much as they go up in spine weight! Goin up in spine would require a heavier point, thus adding to FOC! Cedar and Douglas Fir are two woods where with a heavy head 160-190gr, a hunter could get alot of FOC versus archers who use hardwood shafting like Hickory or Ash it only makes sense to use a heavier head to balance the arrow out better but FOC would not go up much!

[Jesse Peltan]

More foc is always better as long as the arrow tunes.  Get some sitka spruce.  It has the highest strength to weight ratio next to balsa so it will give you the highest foc.  Get a high spine weight and cut down as far as you can.  Cutting the arrow down will stiffen and lighten it so you will have to add point weight and therefore foc.  Then find what point weight tunes.  If the arrow ends up too heavy plug it into the spine calculator and find out what spine and point weight you'd need to get it in the right weight range.  You can also use tapered shafts.  They're more expensive but have more foc and generally fly and penetrate better.

[WESTBROOK]

Like Ben said, I realy dont worry about it. I shoot 160-200g heads on my fir, cedar, spruce shafts but on a shaft that is 13-15 gpi that is not much foc, my arrows weigh 600-750g.

Its a game best played with carbons where you can get a high spine at less than 10gpi.

Eric

[Orion]

For many, many years, the standard FOC recommendation was about 7-10%.  That was pretty much the default because most broadheads were in the 125-135 grain range and that yielded 7-10% FOC on normal length and weight arrows.  Such arrows have accounted for millions of animals over the years, I'm sure.

However, since you asked, by using a standard length hardwood footing on an 11/32 cedar shaft and tapering the last 9-10 inches to 5/16 and using a 175 grain glue on point, I can get 19%, almost 20% FOC.  To get more than that, one needs to go to a longer foot, a heavier head, or drill out the shaft and add an internal metal footing/rod.

However, as Bjorn pointed out, when you start playing around with high FOC with wood arrows, you quickly run out of spine, particularly if you shoot a bow over 55# or so and/or have a long draw length.

Your 14.5% FOC is just fine for woodies.  

[woodchucker]

Why worry????? Just buy shafts in the grain wieght of the total arrow wieght that you want.

FOC came about as a way around the light wieght and stiffness of carbon shafts. In adding point wieght,you increase total arrow wieght and decrease the stiffness to tune the arrow to your bows draw wieght.

If your going to worry about FOC,than you should probly stick to carbons. However,if you want to shoot wood(as I have for YEARS)then buy shafting of the proper spine for your bow and have at it!!!!! You can always go to a heavier wood if you want a heavier arrow.

Past experiance has taught me that with the proper spined arrows,you don't need a head over 145grs.

(I have used 125grs. for years without a problem.)

[cacciatore]

I have problem to find wood arrow stiff enough for a high FOC,but they kill well anyway.

[Mike Most]

Interesting, good post...thanks for putting all that information up....

Mike

[mnbearbaiter]

All i have ever shot is wood, only seems right to me, especially out of my self bows!!! I was thinkin more along the lines of what a higher FOC arrow does when it hits an animal when i started this thread! Isnt it true that a heavy FOC arrow will keep its intended course better than an arrow that isnt as heavy on the business end? Say u hit a quartering away elk in the ribs, a heavier FOC arrow wont veer off course as much when it comes in contact with a rib as will a lighter one! That was my initial basis i was hunting for here!

[Jim now in Kentucky]

EFOC would take away another excuse for why I can't shoot more Robinhoods and kill animals deader. I'm not going there!

[mnbearbaiter]

  Love it!!! Im fairly new to it and was looking to get a little advice on the subject! To tell you the truth the first time i ever checked FOC on an arrow was about a week ago! I have a few odd and even arrows laying around that i tested, most of them were survivors from hunting seasons past and my arrows FOC were between 9-14.5%! 500-600 total weight arrows, so not too bad for hunting i guess, they worked i know that much!!!

[Fletcher]

Higher than average FOC's have interested me for many years since I noticed that my arrows always seemed to fly better with 160 gr heads than with 125's.  I recently shot a hog with a 28" BOP spruce arrow with a 50 grain insert and 190 gr VPA Terminator broadhead.  Depending on the formula used, FOC was 14.6% or 21.6%.  High FOC is a good thing.

IMO, FOC needs to be figured including the point in the overall arrow length.  I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade and have worked with flying things for over 35 years.  It makes no sense use the point's weight and not the length.  The point is also a part of the flying arrow.

[Steve B.]

Increasing FOC a few percent, or so, should not, in and of itself, help much with penetration until you got into EFOC ranges.  EFOC is not practically obtained with wood arrows.
However, if increasing FOC, even a little, improves arrow flight, then penetration increase could be huge.

[mnbearbaiter]

That was my thought too! To me a 190gr point would have huge FOC on a cedar or sitka spruce shaft! To me, with the benefit of the added penetration that comes with FOC theres no reason to cut arrows down like some people have stated, might as well stick to working with arrows at a hunting length!

[Jack Skinner]

Funny thing about wood shafts is all of this is correct. I have been making my own wood shafts for about a year now, and shooting wood shafts for over 15. In that time I have found that a wood shaft spined for your bow and that flys well with a good cut on contact head put in the chest will take everything we have in this country to hunt (end result full freezer).
That being said tinkering is fun so as I made my own shafts I began adding weight up front for more FOC. First simply by using heavier heads. I am shooting selfbows so a lighter than normal spine is needed for good arrow flight (vs fiberglass bows). As my head weight went from 125 to 190grains I found that all I needed was about 5 more pounds in spine or cut 1 inch from my arrow shaft. Thats only a difference of 65 grains (end result of adding heavier gr heads was full freezer). Now finding a shaft material that comes in at the total grain weight needed becomes more of a problem making my own shafts. I really like ash but it comes in about 75 to 100 grains heavier in total arrow weight than I am looking for. Wanting to shoot an arrow in the 650gr range. This is an 28inch arrow with 190grain point. I could shoot a lighter grain point but I like 190. So a search for different shaft materials has brought me to poplar. Poplar with my 190 grain head was coming in about 100 grains light. Cool now I could try drilling the tip and adding weight for more FOC and strengh. 2 inches of 3/16 brass rod comming in at about 110 grains was added. Now I have a 300grain head FOC was increased the differenc in gr weight is 165gr (from my starting point of 125grain head). As I shot the arrows they flew well but where coming out nock high and slightly slapping the riser. So I will have to up my spine 5 lbs and change my nocking point to get them to fly well. No dought in my mind that they will fly tru but that is a lot of work considering all I have to do is shoot the ash shafts as they are ( a little heavey yes but great durability and geat shafts). I suppose what my tinkering has shown me is that find a shaft materal that is durable and comes in at the total arrow weight you want and go shoot. FOC on wood shafts begans to present all kinds of problems like finding a shaft material that is light but durable in total weight (like poplar, spruce) but spines mid to high so that you can add additional weight to get FOC and your desired total arrow weight and good arrow flight. As far as penetration goes I will build some poplar shafts this season with the FOC and shoot them at antelope, deer, elk and will probably get the same results I have seen with "normal" arrow shafts a full freezer. Which is better? "Normal" or FOC doesnt matter to me as long as the freezer is full.

[Orion]

Fletcher:  I agree that FOC measurements should include the length of the point.  The figures I gave earlier did not do that.  I believe Ashby doesn't include the point length in his calculations, so most others don't and I didn't.  However, I'm going to start including it in my calculations.  

Jack:  As you found out, it gets pretty hard to keep overall arrow weight in a moderate range when trying to increase FOC on a hardwood/heavy shaft.  Have greater flexibility with lighter shafts like cedar and Sitka spruce.  Shooting a self bow, you don't run into the "spine ceiling" as fast as those who might be shooting glass laminated recurves or hybrids with low stretch strings.  Fun to tinker.  

[Jack Skinner]

Orion,
Yes my greatest difficulty has been keeping gross arrow weight down. Almost all the hardwoods I have tried ash, hickory, maple come in above my 650 mark, some way above. So adding weight up front would make for dangerous game shafts (850+), way heavey for my 60lb selfbows. For me ash and birch work the best for "normal arrow shafts", and poplar has come in low like spruce so that I can add weight up front. I am going to make a dozen of the poplar shafts and shoot them at 3D's this summer and check there durability before deciding on shooting in hunting season.

As I said above though I figure results will be the same as long as I do my job, steak in the freezer. And yes much Fun in trying different options as long as it involves wood.