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Author Topic: What is Baiting to you?  (Read 9200 times)

Offline dave19113

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What is Baiting to you?
« on: March 04, 2010, 01:03:00 PM »
I have a topic that I wanted to present to TG. I was at work the other day and 2 ppl I work with were having a "discussion" of sorts when I walked by. They were talking about baiting deer, hogs, bear, etc. Naturally 1 was for and the other against. Knowing that I was an avid hunter, well, I got pulled in.

     Now 1st off, Im stating baiting in the legal sense.  Where state laws LEGALLY ALLOW it. Not deer jacking!!!

     Well one was saying its totally immoral and that it is def not fair chase. The other, stated if local law allows then why not.  Thats where it turned to me.  

     Now I will say up front I do not judge hunters either for or against any form of legal hunting. There is just types that I do not personally care for so I will not do it. But to each is own.

     I stated to the person opposed to it "Have you ever hunted in a corn field, over a big fall of acorns, near a farm area where live stock are fed or an apple orchard?" Well my friend, you are hunting over bait. Natural, but it is still bait. He looked away because I know he has hunted corn fields and so have I.

     I then went on to say that, me personally, I would not use those deer canes or stuff like that that "chums" the area. That is just me.

     The opposer went on to say " you hunt with a recurve, isnt that sorta hipacritical."

     I stated def not. All the way back to early native americans, they used ways to "trick" the game. we are just taking what they learned and used it.

   I just wanted input from you guys. My take on things is if you are abiding by hunting regs and are enjoying yourself in the outdoors then it is a good thing. I choose to hunt with Trad equipment and put down my compound years ago bc that is what I like. But yet I still rifle hunt, bc i like it. If its not a certain person thing then ok... and good for you.  

     Those two guys were so embroiled in being right that I think they missed the big picture of being outdoors all together.


Good Luck All On The New Season


D
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

Offline Thumper Dunker

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 01:07:00 PM »
Any kind of baiting out here is ilegal. Your hunting not fishing.
You can hop but you can't hide.
If it was not for rabbits I would never get a buck.
Yip yipahooooo yipyipyip.

Offline dave19113

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 01:16:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thumper Dunker:
Any kind of baiting out here is ilegal. Your hunting not fishing.
Im only talking about legal states....
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

Offline ChuckC

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 01:16:00 PM »
Dave  you are right on.  

We tend to divide things by arbitrary meanings.  If I put the corn there it is baiting, but if it accidently falls off the wagon while I am pulling it to the truck its OK.  IF it is still on the standing corn it is OK.

Likewise, if I bring in acorns from afar and feed the deer, it is baiting, if I hunt under a big ol oak tree that is loudly dropping acorns, it is not.

etc
etc
etc.

Not a whole lot different than baiting using sex scent or grunts or bleats or distress calls or any other way of attracting and stopping an animal.

You have to stay legal so follow your local laws,    and let everybody else do the same.
ChuckC  :campfire:

Offline xtrema312

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 01:17:00 PM »
I don't have a problem with others baiting if it is legal to do it.  We haven't been able to bait water fowl and turkeys for as long as I can remember.  I think they would be easy targets over bait.  Recently there was a ban on baiting deer due to concerns about disease.

Baiting is putting something where it is not growing or falling naturally.  It is just that simple to me.  

I don’t bait even when it is permitted and in the past that was only deer around here.  I have always found the smart deer, the ones I am after, only come in to bait at night.  There are too many other food sources where I hunt for a smart deer to feel compelled to visit a bait pile in the daylight.  Baiting just alerts them to the fact I am there.  I would rather get them where they don’t expect me.  I hunt the same property as others, who bait, and I shoot way more deer than they do.  

I would bait a bear or a hog if I need to do that due to the hunting area.  I know some folks hunt deer in areas with few natural funnel areas or crops to stake out.  In those situations I understand why they bait, and I am sure it is more effective.  However, I have hunted those area and shot deer while my baiting hunting partners sat on a highly used bait pile and saw nothing days on end.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Firefly Long Bow  James 4:14
60" MOAB 54@29 James 1:17

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Offline Jason R. Wesbrock

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 01:36:00 PM »
I can't disagree with anything Chuck posted. As a matter of fact, he saved me a bunch of typing.

Offline Ground Hunter

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 01:39:00 PM »
When the deer come to the SOUND of a feeder - its baiting!  I don't even fish with bait.  But to each their own.  This is, to me, not an issue of justification, it is a personal choice.  I choose not too - I enjoy the HUNT as I define it!  If you like baiting, enjoy it if it is legal.  H

Offline Kenneth

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 01:48:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I can't disagree with anything Chuck posted. As a matter of fact, he saved me a bunch of typing.
Yep, what Jason and Chuck said.   spreading apples or corn is no different than planting a food plot, hunting a crop field or orchard, or using scents and lures.
Chasing my kids and my degree for now but come next fall the critters better look out.  ;)

Offline daveycrockett

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 01:57:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kenneth:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
I can't disagree with anything Chuck posted. As a matter of fact, he saved me a bunch of typing.
Yep, what Jason and Chuck said.   spreading apples or corn is no different than planting a food plot, hunting a crop field or orchard, or using scents and lures. [/b]
Ditto

Offline frassettor

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 02:02:00 PM »
Ohhh boy, Did someone pop the popcorn  :confused:
"Everything's fine,just fine". Dad

Offline Chris Shelton

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 02:05:00 PM »
I am definatly not against it.  I consider baiting anything that draws a animal in that was not naturally there.  But if I had the choice between bait and no bait I wouldnt use bait, let me explain . . .

Well I am going to use a fishing example to prove my point.  I fish with a fly rod, one because I like doing things the old way, and two because I am actually more successful with it in most cases.  How is that possible?  Because alot of folks are using hooks and worms to catch there fish.  Or hooks and minnows or powerbait, etc.  So when they see something they have never seen before, I.e my homemade fly, they pounce.

Same thing seems to happened around here for hunting.  Everyone in my vacinity, around my house especially baits.  So there is so many different piles of corn everywhere, the deer have tons of food to choose from, it has gotten to the point where they are only coming to bait at night.  So my solution is to set up on funnels or heavy trails.  

When fishing it is the same fish, and I am hunting the same deer.  I just choose to hunt without it, because I think it works better for me.  Plus that and I am broke, cant afford bait, and about 85% of my hunting is on public land, and we cant use bait except for private.  But within the other 15% of my hunting, I just wouldnt choose bait.  For those of you that use it, and use it well.  Excellent.  We are hunters pursuiting our quarry, and we want meat.  Even the indians wouldnt say heck no I aint gonna bait because it is easier, they would bait, and they would have fuller bellies for it . . .
~Chris Shelton
"By failing to prepare you are preparing to fail"~Ben Franklin

Offline dave19113

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 02:07:00 PM »
hahahahaha... i knew this would fuel the fire.... but honestly i just wanted to hear feedback..... and it is all good stuff.....
FREEDOM IS NOT FREE

Offline jrchambers

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 02:15:00 PM »
up here baiting for bears is legal in the spring,  some times we use fish.  fall it is not but if you go up a stream full of rotten fish what do you have.....bears.
baiting is also ilegal for brown bears period.  but if you kill a animal you can take a brown bear off of the gut pile.  
it is not considerd baiting if you hut a gut pile,  but it is if you move your guts to a strategic location.  its all a matter of what you want to call baiting, the states have deparments full of graduates for that so us hunters dont have to scrap with each other about it

Online non-typical

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »
...a halter top...
TGMM Family of the Bow

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Offline ChuckC

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 02:33:00 PM »
Add a discussion point.  Let's have some fun.

OK  if I fly a blue cloth or a shiny CD near my stand (I hear bears are attracted to "strange things"....) is that baiting ?

If I am fishing and using a real worm, it is called bait, but if I am using a fake worm it is a lure, not bait.  

Even if it looks the exact same ?  

Even if it has smelly stuff or is salt impregnated ?  

Even if I squirt it with fish attractant (or WD40) ?  

How bout if it is made by Berkley out of real fish or worm parts ?

How bout if I don't use bait, period, but I am using a spinner bait, balsa minnow, or buzz bait which, by the way is made to look like food getting away.  Is that   "baiting".

If not,  then  can I (I believe legally I can ) use fake corn on the cob, like they had once for goose hunting.  Looks real, who knows maybe even smells real, but it isn't real AND the deer can't eat it.  Is that baiting ?    If I have a pile of them 6ft tall is it baiting ?

Like a lot of things we do, there are rules made by a few people that have to cover ALL scenarios.  Someone has to draw the line, or say "no line is to be drawn".

What you yourself do is not the point here.  What is allowed, by law, is the point.  

Here then is where your particular morals, or more's or ethics or whatever they are called come into play.  You do it as you chose to.  I will do as I chose to.
ChuckC

Offline BobW

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 02:39:00 PM »
legal is "by the law"
ethics is "by the soul"
these can be mutually inclusive of exclusive......
"A sagittis hungarorum libera nos Domine"
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St. Judes - $100k for 2010 - WE DID IT!!!!

Online Orion

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 02:41:00 PM »
Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 10th edition -- Bait: (n) something used in luring, esp to a hook or trap. Hunt:(v)  to pursue for food or in sport,... to search out, seek, etc.

Hunting and baiting are two different activities.  I prefer to hunt.

Offline Kenneth

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 02:45:00 PM »
Very well said again Chuck!  I've never hunted over apples or corn or salt that has been carried into the woods.  I have however hunted a lot of crop fields, orchards, and areas with heavy acorn mass and I use grunt calls and tarsal glands, and urine from other deer.  I'm no different than a guy that carried in 10lbs of corn or apples as long as the state says it's legal.
Chasing my kids and my degree for now but come next fall the critters better look out.  ;)

Offline HATCHCHASER

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 02:59:00 PM »
What folks call baiting ain't no guarantee.  I have had deer walk right bye the corn that was put out to feed on the acorns dropping.  I think there is no difference in planting a food plot and throwing out corn.  Follow the laws and follow your heart.  I go bye the rule that if I have to ask if it's right or wrong then I shouldn't do it. ymmv
It's not the arrival, it's the journey.

Offline LKH

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Re: What is Baiting to you?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 03:05:00 PM »
There's a big difference between hunting and shooting.  

This "we're all out there together" big tent idea just doesn't carry water with me.  Given the chance, I would support outlawing baiting for deer and other ungulates.  Bear I would support just to keep the predators in control.

Just because it's not always successful doesn't make it hunting.

It's legal.  Hey, whorehouses used to be most places and they changed that.  Well, Nevada"""

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