What is Baiting to you?

[Encino Man]

Hunting is nothing more than pitting ones wits against an animals instincts and senses while in their own home environment. Whether that is with a camera, a gun or a bow.

I don't have to tell anyone here how far that can get distorted. Baiting and lures are just a few of those distortions. Lets not forget about hunting in 100 acre fenced lots or planting fields to increase antler size just so they can be hunted, killed and bragged about the size of the rack on the buck they killed.

But the bottom line is this. Each one of us hunt for our own satisfaction, whatever that may be. The animals are here for our own consumption and how we choose to harvest them is an individual decision. As long as it's done in a legal manner

There is no moral issue here as far as baiting is concerned. And each person sets their level of difficulty were they feel will hold their interest.

I for one hunt for the shear joy of hunting and being in nature and I am not one to make it easy on myself. That's why I hunt with a long bow.

As long as the animal is taken legally, by humane means, and not wasted. I have no issues.

[ChuckC]

Burnsie . . .  and the deer are coming to feed on it.   Ha  Baiting !  Actually We are not saying it IS baiting,  but we are trying to say that the end result is no different.

I'm having fun here (sorry).  I guess my point of yacking so much is that  we often have pre-conceived ideas.  Baiting is. . .  this.  but sometimes there is a pretty weak line between that. .  and this.  Sometimes you can draw a perfectly legible line between the two, but again the results are the same.

I don't begrudge someone for baiting, although I will agree that in some areas it has screwed up deer activities.   Wisconsin has been bait free in the biggest part for numerous years, since CWD reared its ugly head (no, not in the north).  Certainly long enough for at least one or two generations of fawns to have grown up "bait free".  

In the UP Michigan,  oh my word, the trails don't follow ridges and swamps. .  they go from bait to bait.  Don't matter if you bait or not cause the deer are gonna follow the bait trails from one to another.  

I was in Texas several times chasing Javelina.  Where I was it is really difficult to see, then approach them lil guys if you don't seed the sendero to first draw them and second keep them there for a few minutes.

I would prefer to spot and stalk them, but really, you couldn't do that there.  Go there and see what I mean.
ChuckC

[Ground Hunter]

"You wouldn't normally see a big pile of doughnuts in the woods"

Burnsie - tell me more of these doughnuts - I'm a cop!  H

[Jesse Minish]

I think it is funny how people think you just wander out in the woods and throw out some doughnuts sit there a little while and shoot a bear.

I hunt bear by baiting but also spot and stalk. Baiting is a lot of work and you have to know your quarry just as well as you do when stalking.

As far as the people that say if it naturally occurs there. What about hunting over stalk ponds for antelope, bear, deer or elk in dry desert areas were they have to water? What about bear hunting in black berry patches that are not native but grow there on there own?

There are more variables than I care to type. I love to bait bear and it is "Hunting" to me.

[sidebuster]

I noticed this conversation usually is directed to deer baiting but I never hear those that oppose baiting deer object when it comes to baiting bears.  

Why are bears different to those that oppose baiting deer?

[Brian Halbleib]

Biggie already said it best..."Never say never until you've been everywhere and seen everything."

I grew up hunting in Pennsylvania where it was and remains illegal to use bait. I was very closed minded on the subject and probably bashed a folk or two about it back then. However, I grew up, and the good Lord blessed me with some opportunities to hunt around North America. After seeing first hand what it takes to chase black bears in the tangles of Ontario and javelinas in the choking brush of south Texas, let's just say my mind is much more open.

Now, on the contrary, my uncle asked if I would chaperone a "hunt" with his 16 year old grandson which turned out to be on a high fence operation. I'm not talking a 1,000+ acres here either (and yes there is a difference). It didn't take long to walk from "boundary" to "boundary". The "wild" boars and other "free-ranging" animals in the "hunting" area had little fear of humans. And while I could have "hunted" on my uncle's dime, I decided to just chaperone because that just isn't for me.

[Gray Buffalo]

CHEATING    

[Guru]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
I used to be staunchly against baiting...That was pretty ignorant of me.

Believe it or not there is a time and a place for it.

Never say never until you've been everywhere and seen everything.

Absolutely!


It's amazing how folks think things are so cut and dry...both for and against....

[mrpenguin]

This is a great topic of discussion... I have often wondered why it is that I seem to inherently object to the idea of shooting deer over feeders or in planted plots, or bear over donunt barrels, but seem to have no problem with the idea of shooting pronghorns at water pools put out by outfitters.  With respect to deer, I think there truly are better ways to hunt them than bait... but in CT (where baiting is NOT legal) we seek out food and water sources to set up our stands.  I like to set up on deer trails leading to or from these sources or off bedding and staging areas... and I have had success in these places.  I think the difference here is that I FOUND them, not put anything there to attract them.

I also do not consider using auditory 'lures' as bait.  Bait is food put out, not urine or grunts or anything else... food.

Now all that said, I have been wanting to get into bear hunting and am now in the baiting camp as a ethical method to take a bear.  Baiting does feed the animals in an artificial way, but how is it different than CT bears eating at the dump?  That's a big-ol'-pile-a-bait they found on their own!!  Realistically, baiting provides a food source, but as Fred Eichler has commented, all the bears senses are still fully engaged as it approaches and feeds at the bait.  Baiting bear allows for examining the bear for age, sex, cubs, etc... where as stalk and spot could limit these things.  Now let me be clear, I have not yet hunted bears over bait, but I think I am OK with doing so in the future!

[Brian Krebs]

Sidebuster:

 I am one that had the chance to legally hunt deer over bait; and when I tried it;  and the deer walked in; I got down out of the tree and walked off. I don't like baiting deer. To me it is like cheating.
 But- where there are too many deer; and its an issue- well bait might be appropriate.
 Hogs--well they are becoming a menace; and baiting them- its one way to 'get er done' in an efficient manner.

 Now bears- well bears are a whole different story.
 Bears commonly feed off one bait source. Its natural for them to establish a spot on a spawning stream and go there year after year to eat fish.
 So- baiting them is not changing their pattern of existence.

 With bears - the strongest survives. I read a Craighead study once that said if you kill a dominant boar - 40 bears can live where he did.

 Boars will dominate a bait.

A few years I did a youth mentored hunt for a friends son. In order to mentor a hunt - you have to have a tag for the species hunted.
 This meant that my months of baiting and setting up stands would not pay for me- until the kid I was mentoring got his bear.
 There was a guy who hauled in a huge amount of bait near where I was baited; and a huge boar dominated that bait and mine.
 I saw the boar; and a couple sows; but I could not shoot until the kid had finished hunting.
 OK - so the kid shoots the P&Y boar that was coming in- and I skinned it; and it was spring; and there was 3 inches of fat on that bear; and fat all over its body.
 Later-- I shot a sow ( long story) that had been coming into the same bait as the boar; and she had zero body fat.
 
 Boars dominate food sources; and being able to use a bait - so that I can identify the bear I am shooting is critical. If you want a big bear you have to do that.

 So - no I do not feel ok hunting over bait for deer; I might try to figure out food sources and find bedding areas associated with them and trails to and from and hunt those. Or spot and stalk.
 By the way; where I live- spotting and stalking bears is going to give you a slight chance; and a slighter opportunity to choose what your shooting.

 I did not get a bear last year; I had several people come and hunt off my bait; it was hard work; and its like a chess game hunting bears over bait here. Not easy at all.

 elk and deer and moose over bait- well doesn't sound like what I am after.

 The amount of property you can hunt; the population of the deer; the dynamics change from area to area. I am not dissing anyone for baiting deer. I just don't personally like the idea. Like Biggy implied though- I am not living where others are.

[Ragnarok Forge]

It is legal to bait deer and elk here in Washington.  While I have never done it intentionally by placing bait, I have definately hunted over bait.  Corn fields for ducks and geese, under apple trees for bears, deer, and elk.  If you hunt food sources you hunt over bait in my book.  I say if it is legal in your state and you want to do it, More power to you.  

I prefer to be moving when I hunt, I find it more challenging and more fun.  I dislike being stuck in one spot all day long waiting.

[bowfiend]

Personally, I struggle with this topic because I understand that, in certain situations, baiting is the most practical tool for managing game populations. I've spent the last ten years trying to spot and stalk black bears with my longbow in Montana and I've yet to get within range. I've killed whitetails spot and stalk but I cannot come close to a bear. If the MT FWP was relying on me to help manage the bear population (which they are) they'd be in big trouble. Using the same line of reasoning, I have come to have greater appreciation for baiting and would respect someone more for harvesting a bear over bait with a traditional bow than I would an individual using a rifle to dump one from 400 yards.

That being said, I saw a hunting program last week in which the "hunter" had to get out of his blind because the feeder he was sitting on didn't activate on time. He turned it on and hopped back in the blind before the deer came in. Maybe it's hypocritical, but I was saddened to think that many folks not only envision that as a "hunt", but pay a lot of money for that experience.  

Maybe I'm hypocritical and maybe I am wrong, but I view baiting as a valuable tool for managing game poopulations, but a tool that transfers the emphasis of the experience from "hunt" to "harvest". I think we all like to think that we do what we do for the experience and the bounty is icing on the cake. So why would we tarnish the experience by making it about the "harvest" rather than the "hunt"?

Like I said, I'm conflicted myself and certainly wouldn't pass up a chance to harvest a big boar coming into a Northern Alberta bait. I guess I would at least acknowledge, though, that it's a harvest and not a hunt.

[hunt it]

U seen what Howard Hill used for bait???

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by hunt it:
U seen what Howard Hill used for bait???

What????

[jrchambers]

human placed foods like bear baits and corn feeders in my opinion do change the animals habits, it makes them even more wary, they know its not natural and they in turn start playing the game with you, ive spent my share of time on bear baits, ive been sniffed and never saw the bear again, he just started coming in the middle of the day, never had a shot.  the next year i began using the bait as a sneak spot i would still hunt around it and had just as much action as sitting, i also used natural baits, fish heads for example,  
I also have done a couple weeks of hunting in texas for hogs and deer, and alot of it was over corn,  those critters arnt dumb they know what the corn is there for and most of the time they didnt show, i had more action hunting food plots and trails to the food plots.
i have no problem with baiting deer or bears, its up to me at the time how i want to hunt, i have killed bears with both spot and bait,
i belive that hunting over any food source that has not grown from the earth with out human aid is baiting, scents for deer and any other animal is baiting.  I also belive that hunting a section of oaks is the same as hunting over a natural kill for bears or wolfs,  it is up to the hunter to find the natural bait, this i belive to be the purest most efective method wich for bears requires lots of work and luck.

ive seen some of you call it cheating,  pretty srong words, In retrospect do you fish with a bare hook and just hope one will swim into it?
i supose using a vehicle to get to the area a animal is is also cheating, Optics-cheating- camo-cheating,   lets just say if i wanted to kill a bear here i had no vehicle no camo or optics just primitive sticks and clothes the first thing id do is go to a salmon stream pick out a bunch of fish make a pile then a brush blind and hope their is a bear in the area,  eventualy there will be and i might get to see it let alone shoot it, id keep it full of rotten fish as long as it takes or the fish run out,

sorry way to much.

keep the corn piles high,  and the hogs dumb down in tx ill be back

[KSdan]

DEFINITION:  I tend to think that anything we do with food for the purpose to "draw" animals to a specific location for the purpose of hunting is "baiting." Like many things it has to do with intent.

What is the difference in spending money on a food plot or putting down some corn?  The intent and result is the same!  

I think hunting on natural food sources (including crops) is quite a bit different than the intent to draw deer to my stand site.

Is any of this wrong?  Probably not.  But when states decide to outlaw baiting, I sure hope they take into consideration all forms of it.

And I sure wonder how some celeb hunters would do if they could not hunt over bait.

All that being said- I am generally not against it.

Dan in KS

[GMMAT]

I abhor the double-standard (bear v. deer baiting).

[Kip]

Legal in Louisiana and I have in small amounts.I also think too much are making our deer even more nocturnal b/c a deer with a full stomach doesn't have to browse during the day as much.Kip

[hunt it]

Howard Hill once while croc hunting used a native for bait! There is a picture in one of Howard's books of this poor native guy standing up to his waist in river with sticks stuck in cage like fashion around him. Howard is sitting on tree limb above. Folks would not take to kindly to that these days.

If there is corn in the field and corn in a pile not much difference. Hogs/bears in alot of country pretty hard to do without bait. In Ontario we can bait all but turkey and migratory birds. Currently there is a new law proposed to ban FEEDERS but not baiting.

[Bonebuster]

Baiting is what it is.

When I hunt over falling acorns, I consider it baiting. I did not haul it in, but to me it is bait just the same. An alfalfa field, with beaten runways leading to it...a big, green baitpile. With a foot of snow, a cornfield, cut or standing, is most certainly a baitpile. How about a foodplot, cultivated using quads, and special equipment manufactured just for such things. IMHO...bait.

Hauling "bait" out is alot of work. It takes alot of time and it makes hunters look bad to the non-hunting public. (most non-hunters see "baiting" as unsportsmanlike)

I learned long ago, that hauling out foods like corn and sugar beets was, by far, NOT the most effective way to get deer in range of my arrows.

A couple of years ago, I got permission to hunt a big, cut cornfiled. Snow was early, and it was cold. Deer were coming from all around, and had beaten paths through the deep snow leading to it.
When I took my then thirteen yr old son there for the first time, he saw all of the deer sign and said, "this is one BIG baitpile". He was right. And best of all, I didn`t have to haul it.

My son killed his second deer with traditional equipment that evening, and it was through the use of "bait" IMHO, and it was awesome.