Soaking Douglas Fir Shafts

[mnbearbaiter]

Yesterday i got a dozen Douglas Fir shafts from Allegheny Mountain Arrow Woods. I cut/tapered/hand straightened them, and placed them in my PVC shaft soaking device where they are totally submerged in Watco Danish Oil! They were cut to 30" and weighed around 385gr! Im looking to achieve a total finished arrow weight of 625gr with a 160gr point! Does anyone know if fir is a porous shaft, or does it have a high resin content and wont soak up that much oil! I gain alot when soaking cedars, over 50gr, and was wondering what to expect with fir!

[snag]

Are these Surewood Shafts? I shoot their shafts in the 80# range and they always come out around 600gr with 160gr tips. I'd be interested in watching this to see what yours comes out to. Fir is pretty absorbant. When I stain mine with Minwax it soaks it up pretty fast!

[mater]

Ive never heard of soaking shafts. Wont that make them warp? If so. can you straighten afterwards?   Mark

[JRY309]

I would say like snag said you will be pretty close to 600 grs.,maybe over.You have a raw shaft of 385 and 160 gr point,that is 545 grs already not counting finish,nocks and fletching.You will probably pretty close without soaking them.

[mnbearbaiter]

They do need to be restraightened after they dry, i hand rub a Spar Helmsman finish on them too, which gives them a slick durable finish! I just monitor them every 24hrs! I just checked them and after the first 24hrs the oil seems to have dropped a bit, maybe 1/2" which means the shafts have absorbed some already! I will probably give them 5-7days depending on how much oil they soak up!

[Orion]

Doug fir doesn't soak up Watco like cedar does.  Tried it several times.  Most gain I ever got was an average of 20 grains.  That's for 11/32 shafts.  

You'll get pretty close to 625 grains.  385 grain shafts, 20 grains more from the oil, 20 grains for the finish, 20 grains for the feathers and nock and 160 grains for the point, equals 605 grains.

Your shafts are in the light to moderate weight range for Doug fir.  Pretty easy to get them 25 even 50 grains heavier from the supplier.

[dnovo]

I got 2 dz Surewood shafts last fall. They weighed in at 400-410 full length. After I finished them, tapered, crested and fletched cut to 29 1/2" they weighed in at 595-600 with a 160 point. Right where I want shooting them from a 57# longbow.

[Tree Killer]

All the doug fir shafts I have on hand right now are 450-460 grs. Those are 32" bare shafts.

[Kanuck]

Why didn't you just buy some hardwood shafts from AMAW?!  They have everything from poplar to hickory to laminated birch to purpleheart!  Bill will even give you an idea of the weight of his matched dozens in any given spine range if you ask him.  Or if you have your heart set on doug fir then foot it with hardwood!

[mnbearbaiter]

Hardwood shafts are a little harder to straighten than fir, spruce and cedar! Also hardwoods seem to react a little different out of the glass bows(dont recover from paradox the same), i have than my self bows! I also dont wanna shoot an extremely heavy arrow, and thats what i would get with hardwoods! Most hardwood shafts weigh more than the finished arrow weight im looking for!

[Don Stokes]

mnbearbaiter, I shoot yellow poplar shafts and usually have a finished arrow weight in the range you're looking for, 600 to 650 grains. They're not hard to straighten or keep straight. They are the lightest of the available hardwoods, and make excellent, tough shafts.

Soaking in oil is unlikely be a permanent fix due to slow evaporation, and I would think it would play hell with glue and finishes. Never done it, just guessing, could be wrong. Nature provides plenty of good wood that is usable as is. Just tell your shaft supplier what weight shafts you want, and if they're worth their salt they will supply them to you.

[StanM]

Another option would be to send the shafts to Great Basin and have him put some hardwood foots on them.  That would get you a little more weight I'd think, plus some of the best looking arrows that I've ever seen were Doug Firs footed from Great Basin.

[mnbearbaiter]

Oh yeah, Bill at Allegheny is great! He was out of alot of the spine weight i wanted when i called him but will have it shortly! Hes gettin ready for all the shoots and such that he will be visiting this summer! Soaking shafts actually doesnt really have any negative effects at all! If i soak them for 5 days, i dry them for 5 days! I then apply the spar helmsman finish, and when it dries duco cement sticks to it really well!

[Orion]

Don:  Soaking cedars in Watco oil does work, permanently.  I can get an average of 50 plus grains in weight,  75 grains if I soak them under pressure.  After they dry, and that does take some time, they do not lose additional weight.  I've sometimes also put other topcoat finishes on them as well.  I've used Bohning fletchtite and duco cement with good results.  Never had a feather come off. Been doing this for about 15 years now.  Of course, whenever I can, I try to buy the shafts heavy enough to begin with.  Can't always find that with cedar though.

[mnbearbaiter]

Amen! It helps alot! Hey Orion ever done it with Sitka Spruce, or know if it would absorb much oil and gain much weight! I have a flatbow thats 50#@28" and ive never shot anything out of it but it doesnt feel that snappy! I love sitka spruce for its strength but know its lightweight, would love to use it in that flatbow if i could get a 500-550gr finished arrow with either a 125gr or 145gr point! What do ya think?

[Orion]

Never tried it with sitka spruce.  Another way of increasing shaft weight, and getting more FOC at the same time, is to drill out two or three inches on the point end of the shaft and insert a piece of metal rod.  I described how to do this in a Trad Archers World article about a year ago.  There's also a vendor on this site who now sells a jig for doing so.  The problem one often runs into when using these internal metal footings is not enough arrow spine for good tuning.  But that shouldn't be a problem with a 50# selfbow.  Have fun.

[mnbearbaiter]

What about those Reparrows in like Purple heart or Hickory? They would add decent weight too i believe, always wanter to try em?

[Orion]

I don't think Jim is offering them in purple heart or hickory.  However, even if he were, it wouldn't add much weight to the shaft.  I think the standard length for his reparrows is 3 1/2 inches.  By the time the female and male ferrule is ground, there's only about the equivalent of 2 inches of hardwood left.  That would be about 35-40 grains.  Keep in mind that unless you keep the arrow longer, rather than cutting off the equivalent length from the nock end, you don't get the entire weight gain.  If you cut off two inches off cedar, for example, to keep the arrow the same length, the cedar that you cut off  will weigh about 20-25 grains, so your net gain will only be 10-15 grains.  Make sense?

[mnbearbaiter]

Sure does, always wanted to try em, or hear from someone who had! I thought for sure they made em in PH! I have hade my fir shafts soaking for three days now and have had to add oil every 24hrs when i check them! It is hard to say how much has been absorbed by the shafts, but id say its in the 1"-1 1/2" range! Im goin to take them out tomorrow at 1pm, thatll be 4 days they have been soaking! They are really surprising me on how much they are taking on, not much less than the cedars did if i remember right! I will weigh them after a 24hr dry time to see how much weight they put on and then again after the 4 day dry time, before i but the sealer on them! I will keep everyone who is following posted!!!

[Don Stokes]

Very interesting. There must be some chemistry going on between the wood and the oil that binds it to the wood.