John3, The shaft dump was where my brother was sitting. Some javis were denning in one of the old mine shafts. It was in the rocks, just to the north of the mines that we cornered the one in a den and got it with the group effort. Kent could not figure out where the ones that had been at the Hermit stand had gone. Never saw a single one there all week. Maybe they were denned up having babies? We never found the numbers they had in the past and we did do a lot of hiking and looking.