I just had an idea...re: Reparrows and the Internal Point Jig

[SlowBowinMO]

I was reading the Internal Point Weight Jig thread yesterday...and a Reparrows thread yesterday and I had an idea.  Since I know both of those items to be great products that work well, what would happen if you combined them???    

Brainstorming here, but if you took the jig and center drilled the Reparrow, then the arrow shaft, then applied the Reparrow to the shaft as intended and inserted the internal rod or footing...well it seems you might end up with a hardwood footed arrow with around 6 or 7 inches of internal rod.  :D  

Hmmm...I'll not get a chance to try this until at least this weekend.  What do you all think?

Tim

[Fletcher]

I've thought about drilling regular foots; no reason it wouldn't work with the Reparrows, too.  By drilling the pieces separately, it might help with alignment.  With my 35 gr/in lead wire, I wouldn't want that much added weight, tho.  70 grains extra up front seems to be plenty for me, even with lightweight Sitka Spruce shafts.  50 grains of lead and a 190 gr VPA Terminator gave me a 620 grain 28" Sitka Spruce arrow.  FOC is 20.6%.

[Old York]

Pure genius Tim   :D

[Mudd]

I'll be watching for your posts down the road with the results Tim.

God bless,Mudd

[Over&Under]

Originally posted by Old York:
Pure genius Tim    :D  

Ditto!

[SlowBowinMO]

I hear you Rick, for me anyway the point jig is the bomb for 30-70 grains weight.  Once I exhausted my little supply of tungsten, making 100 grains was difficult.  I've been shooting/experimenting with a lot of woodies with 250 to 300 grains up front, so I hope this combination will make it easier to achieve.  

If somebody else gets this done or something similar please post some pics.  Otherwise I'll try to when I get it accomplished.  It will be interesting to see how it works.

[Jack Skinner]

I have posted before the results of trying 3/16 brass it wasnt as strong as I thought it would be, not enough wood left around the brass. I was getting another 100 grains with the brass for 300 total up front. I and others noticed the best arrow flight I have ever gotten from my selfbows, but I lost durability. So I just finished my first 1/2 dozen footed poplar arrows, man what a lot of work but very satisfying. Now I should be able to use the 1/8th brass or nail because I dont need as much weight to achieve the 300 grains up front. Soon I will have some internal/external footed arrows. If they fly like the internal footed shafts and have better durability I will have found my perfect arrow.

[Jack Skinner]

So I went to work this weedend and made a couple of footed shafts. I was going to external and internal foot both but the bloodwood footed arrow came out weighing what I wanted so only the purpleheart footed shaft got both internal/external. This was my second attempt at footing shafts. The first I did a 6inch taper with 2.5inch foot. These dropped the spine almost 8lbs but I gained very little mass weight. So for my second attempt I went with 5in taper and 4inch foot. This dropped spine only about 5lbs and added more mass weight, enough that I only had to internally foot one shaft to get my 450gr bare shaft weight. Now I only needed 25grs for the purpleheart, 1.5 inches of 1/8 brass was perfect. The only draw back I see is that only about 1/2inch of brass will be behind the head for support/stength. I dont get the 300gr total tip weight I was getting with 100gr of 3/16th brass. So my FOC isnt as good but I think durability will be better. I can see how buy using the reparrows and drilling thru that footing and then into your shaft how you could get more internal footed materal into the front of the shaft. By externally footing and then drilling into the foot I could only drill 2 inches or so. But as stated with this method I didnt need as much internally footed weight.

A little fuzzy but the finished poplar/purpleheart shaft
 

The shaft loaded into the internal jig
 
Drilled footed Shaft
 
Brass Added
 

[SlowBowinMO]

Thanks Jack for the update.    

I didn't get anything worked up with the Easter holiday events but still intend to keep playing with the idea.

[Jack Skinner]

With a longer than normal drill bit and using the reparrow and then drilling your own shaft I could see 5 to 6 inches of internal footing of 1/8 inch materal. But from my experiments I think 3 inches is probably a good mixture of weight and added strength. Much more and your weight isnt to the very front of the shaft. I may have to pick up some of those reparrows I could have saved a lot of shafts over the years, or figure out how they taper drill the footing and make my own (^8.

[Mudd]

Did you mean to drill out the shaft put in weight then glue on reaparrow, drill it out, then add more weight? Thanks!
God bless,Mudd

[Jack Skinner]

No If I was to try I would dill thru the reparrow section first. Then drill to my limit in my shaft. Then taper shaft, insert into reparrow. I would believe that the way the internal footing jig works the holes should line up just fine but test drive first. Then glue on the reparrow, and add glue/epoxy to internal foot material drive in and let the whole thing set up. You could leave footing materal long and cut to length after drying, taper reparrow. My thoughts on it.

[SlowBowinMO]

Hi Mudd,

I've not tried it yet, but I was thinking of drilling the shaft and then the reparrow, then assembling/gluing the shaft, reparrow and internal weight all at the same time.  Seems to me it would be strongest if done in that manner and would also probably be the easiest way to get good alingment on the whole set up.

[Jack Skinner]

Braveherart

What type of lead are you using? fishing or welding rod? It seems to be slightly heavier per inch than the 1/8 brass.

[SlowBowinMO]

Jack, I've used a bunch of different inserts.  I've got some real heavy nails that fit perfect, also used tungsten, solder, screws, lead wire and brass rod.  The brass rod I have runs about 22 gpi, some of the other stuff is heavier but either not as strong or wouldn't be long enough for the whole 5-6" insert attempt.

[Jack Skinner]

Sorry braveheart it was fletcher that was using some heavey lead wire. My brass rod is about the same.

[Fletcher]

Jack, PM your address and I'll send you some of the lead wire.  I have plenty.

Rick

[Rob DiStefano]

my hunting weight woodies (550-650 grains total weight) with internal footing and high foc's are no problem for me to build.  

the problem i have is building much lighter weight woodies of between 450 and 500 grains, with high foc, to give me around 10gpp with lower holding weight bows.

the things that have helped so far are getting as light a weight of raw shaft as possible at a good spine weight range, tapering the shaft to help with release and flight and foc, and going light on the finish.

[Jim now in Kentucky]

If I had already died, I'd be rolling over in my grave....

lol

[Fletcher]

I agree, Rob.  Sitka Spruce shafts are a big help, but even they get heavy when you start stuffing the the nose with lead and gluing on heavy b'heads.  I really like the way the high FOC shoots and performs tho, so it is worth it to me.