3-Under and tiller question?

[buckster]

I shoot three under and from previous conversations with many bowyers, I think I remember that both recurves and longbows should have a 1/4" POSITIVE TILLER.

I was wondering what impact shooting an even tillered bow would have?  Would it adversly impact shooting characteristics  since you would have a stronger bottom limbs and a weaker top limb?  

Thanks in advance!

[doowop]

Most bowyers that tiller for 3 under tiller even.

[hvyhitter]

Just tune the bow like any other. I have only had a problem with a super short 54" bow. Could never get short bows to shoot well for me with any method.

[Smallwood]

buckster, I believe that what you are saying about the positive tiller is the way most bows are made for split finger shooters.
An even tillered bow is made for a 3 under shooter specifically.
with that said, a three under shooter can shoot a bow that was tillered normally (for split fingers) just fine.
Usually the nock point is just a tad higher than on an even tillered bow.

[MYSTIKBOW]

Barry,
       I'm interested in this very same question since I started shooting my Das three under. From what I have gathered, for shooting three under you want an even or 0 tiller.
 However,I know several three under shooters and they shoot normal tillered bows with no ill affects. Like smallwood said, Usually the only difference is the nocking point.

 JOHN

[McDave]

From experimenting with my DAS bow, I've found that it shoots best 3 under when tillered 1/8" positive.  YMMV, of course.  It's nice to be able to adjust the tiller, isn't it?

[MYSTIKBOW]

Thanks Dave,
Yes it is nice to be able to adjust the tiller!
            I'm still in the experimenting  mode. I'll have to give that setting a try and see how the Difference feels.  Are you shooting a 17" or 21"?

[McDave]

Mine is a 17" riser.  I have 45# and 55# limbs to make a 62" bow.  The poundage is also adjustable, of course.  Since it is a very functional bow, but (and I hate to say it) a very ugly bow, I find that it has become my main hunting bow, since I don't care if it picks up dings from hunting with it or being mishandled by TSA agents.

[bshunter]

I wonder if there are any bowyers out there that could chime in...someone who has done some testing?? I have ordered 5 custom bows for 3 under and still have to shoot a 3/4 np...noise is still an issue with most of them to.

[RLA]

bshunter, have you checked the tiller on them? I have also ordered bows in the past that where ordered 3under and not tillered even. Shooting an ilf longbow, my wives, I was able to play with the tiller and even tiller is much quieter!

[longbowben]

Yes ,if they are tillerd for three under they are much quiter.

[KentuckyTJ]

I also shoot 3 under and just bought a Centaur from the classifieds that was tillered for split fingers. I emailed Jim Neaves yesterday and here was his response for his bows (which I think is pretty standard for most bowyers).

"If custom ordered I will usually go just a slight bit more positive tiller on the top limb for a three under shooter (around 1/4")  but I have taken my standard 1/8" to 3/16" standard tiller and shot three under with perfect arrow flight."

[buckster]

Thanks everyone, I set my DAS up the same way McDave.  I think what Smallwood said about most bowyers tillering EVEN for 3-under is right.

I also think the design of the bow and other factors would come into play.

Thanks for all the great feed-back and Happy Easter!

[Jerry Wald]

just my two cents worth.....that PCH that I got sent to me for my trip....I took it out of the box....strung it....never checked the nock height or brace height....

Just strung it and shot the arrows I made up. I was shooting it to get back to the FEELING of shooting a bow only.

Well everyone that has been around me or have shot this bow combo...IS IMPRESSED PERIOD.

I still haven't checked the nock set and I did check the brace height yesterday and it was 8-1/4"

so I read the info on her and twisted the string and shot it some more...still beautiful flight....it ended up at 8-3/4"

still quiet and right on target (anything that wasn't was me).

So I re-adjusted it to 8-1/2"....left it there...all seems good with this bow.

Other bows might be more finicky, but not the one.

I am totally impressed to say the least.

Jer Bear

[McDave]

Referring to Tom's post above: "If custom ordered I will usually go just a slight bit more positive tiller on the top limb for a three under shooter (around 1/4") but I have taken my standard 1/8" to 3/16" standard tiller and shot three under with perfect arrow flight."

This is also essentially what Black Widow does.  If a customer orders a bow tillered for 3 under, the bow will have MORE positive tiller than if the bow were ordered for split fingers.  This is the opposite of what everyone is saying here!  Most bowyers will say that a bow tillered for 3 under should be even tillered, or perhaps a little bit of positive tiller, but LESS positive tiller than for split fingers.

At first, I thought I was misunderstanding what BW was saying, but I had them clarify it for me, and what I am stating above is correct.  I also believe other reputable bowyers are correct when they state that an even tiller, or small positive tiller, is correct for their bows.

I wish someone could explain to me why it could go one way for some bowyers and the opposite way for other bowyers.

[Jim Neaves]

Three under shooters pull more on the bottom limb therefore it needs to be a tad stiffer to recover with the top limb, hence the positive tiller. Some bows are very forgiving so it is not a big deal and can be tuned perfectly with simple nock point adjustment.

[McDave]

"Three under shooters pull more on the bottom limb therefore it needs to be a tad stiffer to recover with the top limb, hence the positive tiller."

That would be the reason for having MORE postive tiller for a 3 under shooter.

I assume there is an equally valid reason why other bowyers make their bows even tiller for 3 under shooters.  Does anyone know what that is, and where the twain shall meet?

[CUJO]

I have always gone more positive tiller with 3 under, it  is quieter than about the 3/16ths-1/4 inch tiller I usually go.  

From what I was taught , at full draw you want pretty much equal tiller. In other words if you at pulling harder on the bottom limb you need to have more positive tiller to achieve this. On shorter bows (52 inch or so) you will need more than say a 66-68".

Done thousands of bows this way without a single complaint except on a 52" where I only gave it 3/8ths positive tiller and he never got it to settle till I took it to 1/2 inch, then he had it dialed and it was quiet.

Why do people give positive tiller in the first place if even if shooting splitfinger (could it be that even with split you are still slightly pulling harder on the bottom?) how would going even if pulling 3 under is working the bottom limb even more?

Yes you can get good flight with even tiller, problem is they are usually louder (even reverse tiller bows can have good flight with the nock raised high enough.


Ever listen to a good string walker shoot a bow, extremly loud and that due to the bottom limb and top limb not being in time while shot. The reverse is true with shooting a release, most bows are noisy untill you bring the tiller closer to even tiller then they settle down


What do I know....to each their own and do what works four you.

[wixwood]

I do and have shot 3 under for at least 15 years. I have 1 long bow that was built for me that I specified for 3 under. My other bows, recurve and longs, were 2nd hand bows that I tuned to shoot for me. All my bows hit where I focus when I do things right. I wouldn't worry about the minor difference in tiller,if it is a bow you like, it will tune for either and it will be sellable or tradable in the future.

[Jim Neaves]

I am sure that some bowyers out there make their limbs the same length from fade out to fade out and others I know for a fact build the top limb anywhere from 1/2" to 2" longer than the bottom limb. Variations such as these may determine how much tiller a particular style of bow may need to shoot split finger or 3 fingers under properly. An even tiller may work fine for some bowyers, as for me 1/8" to 1/4" more distance from the top fadeout to the string will handle just about any style you want to shoot with slight nock height adjustment. Hope this helps, maybe some other bowyers who go with the even tiller theory can explain their thoughts.

thanks, Jim