Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting

[Straitshot]

Norm Johnson's interview in the latest issue of Traditional Bowhunter magazine is a good read. I especially liked and appreciated his remarks about the future of bowhunting in this country. They were neither exaggerated nor lengthy but to the point, and in my humble opinion, I believe his remarks to be DEAD ON! Thanks Norm.

Louis

[Ray Hammond]

and, for those of us who have to wait 4 more weeks to get OURS...Louis..  :D      

what WERE his remarks? Can you paraphrase?

[beachbowhunter]

An example of anachronism!  

[bm22]

spoiler alert
basically his remarks were

the easier and more technologically we advance and the easier it is to kill game the more they are going to have to set limits and make the seasons shorter. we are getting to good at killing stuff w/ the high powered compounds and rangefinders. they will be the end of the liberal hunting seasons.

[DarkeGreen]

So now we begin to see the truth come out. On another post here they talk about success rates and hiting 50% of what you shoot and recovering 50% of what you hit. Now this thread talks about the efficiency of "high powered compounds".

It's nice to see folks being a little more truthful these days. Folks should know what they are getting themselves into when they switch to traditional, otherwise they just think they suck at it.  

[One eye]

As we continue to battle crossbows here in Michigan, I totally agree with Norm's assessment.  The seasons will eventually be cut due to the efficiency of new technology.

dan

[TSP]

I haven't received my TBM yet and I tend to agree with the perspective behind the paraphrased version of Norm's comments as noted above, but... aren't the majority of "traditional archers" also heading the way of 'efficient new technology'?  I mean, without intending to be disparaging about any particular new 'trad' products, aren't some of the newer items commonly used by stickbowers (adjustable bows built and hunted with spaceage accessories/materials, flyweight arrows built for compounds, electronic gamefinders, arrows, etc.) moving towards accomplishing the same thing as the 'too efficient" modern compound technology?  Think about it.  Aren't we replacing the traditional aspects of barebow shooting (simple tools, simple goals, respect the past) with kind of a 'Dudes!  Easier is always better!' approach?

I understand and identify with the concern of Norm, Dick Robertson, and some (seemingly fewer all the time) trad followers on this issue.  But, as a group its sure hard to understand why the average modern day stickbower calls the compound kettle black when our own ranks are constantly turning a darker shade of gray.      

[fflintlock]

Ahhhhhhhhhh yes, remember the days of blue jeans, an old plaid shirt, maybe a surplus feild jacket, a back quiver full of arrows throwed over your shoulder and a bare bow in hand heading to the woods for a simple, care free day afeild.
 Now it's "trophy" time in the woods. Publications and tv are full of it. How to kill more and bigger game with extended seasons and their prepective weapons.
 Used to be rifle season, 30 30 , slug gun, etc then bow season, recurve, long bow, wood arrows. Now look at the vast array of weapons one has to choose from.
 We'll probably hunt ourselves right out of a hunting season.
 I have'nt read it yet, but I look forward to it though.

[Roadkill]

a good interview. I must say I still see here daily our fellow archers on this site rejoicing in a jake or even a spike/doe.  There are many here who take the challenge and harvest what they can and take immense pride in the accomplishment-regardless of the size. And there are a few who have gone beyond putting meat in the freezer and are looking for a hanger.  As far a technology-the new rifle range finding scopes are exactly what Norm warns against.  That stuff and quads running over everyhting out west-the deer have little chance unless they are on private ground-then someone pays more to kill them.

[Stone Knife]

With all the advancements in bow technology, bow hunters are killing deer at ranges that one were reserved for smooth bore slug guns. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the sport of bow hunting in the next ten years. I'm glad i made the switch to trad gear the other is not for me. I'm serious about killing game but i want to do it in close.

[Tom Mussatto]

I’ve not read Norm Johnson’s article but from what I’ve gleaned from this thread I would probably would agree with his conclusions. It’s man’s nature to find the easiest, quickest, most efficient way to do anything. This is great when applied to things like healthcare, manufacturing, etc., but should we be taking as much of the human element out of hunting as we are doing? I don’t think so. Not good for the long term safety of our liberal archery seasons, and if you truly believe that you get out of something only what you put into it (as per stated so well in Primal Dreams), it’s not going to provide the most satisfaction one can achieve from the sport.

I don’t think the compound is the biggest factor here. The introduction and large scale use of the compound came about around the same time as the proliferation and wide scale use of the portable treestand. I think the portable treestand has had a much bigger impact on archery hunting than the compound bow, and not just for whitetail. I’ve heard of guys hanging portable stands on power poles and windmills for antelope, in trees over wallows for elk, calling varmints form treestands, and even guys using them to hunt groundhogs. The success rate would drop more without the use of treestands than it would without the use of compounds. Since many stickbow hunters use treestands this issue really isn’t one about trad vs mod equipment but about hunting methods.

We hunt small game today much the same as we did 30, 40, and 50 years ago. Given all the advancements in equipment over that time has the success rate on small game risen?  I doubt it, and it probably won't until somebody finds a way to make big bucks off of squirrels and rabbits like they now do deer and elk.

[ethan]

Straitshot, my thoughts exactly!!

[Molson]

TSP and Tom Mussatto,

Very good posts.  There's alot more truth in what both of you said than most are willing to accept.

[Stone Knife]

If tree stands  and portable ground blinds were outlawed during the bow season, how much would that reduce the number of hunters?

[GEREP]

If this is true about modern technology, why do most state game departments find it increasingly difficult to kill ENOUGH deer to keep populations within the carrying capacity of the land.  Most every state has way more deer today than they did 30 or 40 years ago.  When I started bowhunting in the mid 1970's here in Michigan, we saw nothing close to the numbers of deer we see today.  Numbers hit a peak in the late 90's.  Due to a TB outbreak in the MI herd, we had extended seasons and virtually unlimited doe permits.  Numbers dropped substantially over the next few years and now they are on their way back up again.

Deer in my neck of the woods have long ago adapted to the use of treestands.  Anyone that has ever hunted Michigan whitetails would most certainly agree.  Deer around here need chiropractors due to the fact that they look up so much.  Some of my hunting buddies are even convinced that it is now EASIER to hunt from a well placed ground setup that it is to hunt from a tree.

Hunters adapt and before you know it, game adapts.  Yes, success rates have increased but nobdy seems to want to admit that it is due at least equally to the fact that we have three times the deer that we had 40 years ago.  When I started bowhunting, there were between 50,000 and 100,000 thousand bowhunters.  Now in Michigan there are 300,000 plus, (95% being compound shooters) not to mention the 700,000+ firearm hunters. All these hunters, all this technology and the only way to reduce deer numbers was to offer one doe permit PER DAY in most areas.

Sorry guys, you can count me in the group that does not think the sky is falling.

   

KPC

[bm22]

i tend to agree with norm just by the fact that we are making it too easy to kill game, then again the rifles and compounds are necessary to keep game animal numbers in control. i beleive that an individual should be able to easily kill game to keep themselves interested and once they lose interest in the challenge of shooting a deer with a rifle alot of them go to compounds then down to trad.
i also believe a large reason for the numbers coming up in alot of the country is due to the hunters looking for quaility, large rack animals. alot of people have quit shooting the first deer they see and calling it "freezer meat" and are allowing the animals to live and thus breed more before being shot. the numbers in alot of the south east counties in texas have the new minimum horn rules in place to allow the deer to grow. and from what i have heard from people hunting these areas the deer numbers are doing great.
now i am not say that the hunt should be only be about the horns but it shouldn't be shoot everything that walks out.

[Strutter]

I disagree.  I think we are losing hunter numbers at a far faster rate than we are gaining deer killing compound shooters.  Our season here in KY is nearing 5 months long and the herd is still growing.  Alabama has a 3 month or so rifle season and they are having trouble keeping the herd in check.  I think there will always be deer to hunt if there is hunters that want to hunt them.

[Ray Hammond]

I'm with you, GEREP. There's little chance in the Eastern half of our country we are going to lose hunting seasons because we are killing whitetails too efficiently.They're outpacing us.

And anyone that hunts whitetails in the East from treestands has observed over the last 10 years that DEER LOOK UP, like they never have before. I see deer adapting to tree stand use so much that hunting ground blinds can be a real effective way to take deer.

In fact, I took two deer this year by placing a shirt on a hanger in my stand, and walking 150 feet away and sitting in a brushpile. The two does I shot were walking on a main trail that passed the stand, and I shot both of them while they LOOKED at my stand in the opposite direction from me. They never knew what happened.

[xia_emperor]

Well if we want to keep the Hunters #'s growing instead of declining. Then we need to do more then take kids into the woods we need to take adults as well. also not all areas are having High success rate with archery. Look at the Western state, Nevada averages 17 to 20% success on deer with a bow, and in Colorado, Idaho, Oregon Elk and Deer success rates are much the same.
I don't think the sky is falling yet.

[jonesy]

Dam, you all must be some straight up killers, some make it sound like shooting fish in a barrel, hell i know compound shooters that have been hunting for years, and would be blessed to shoot a 70lb doe, the hunter still has still gotta come thru at the moment of truth i dont care what you hunt with. Some folks need to shoot a compound cause they have no hand eye cordination at all,Not to mention how hard it is to find a spot to hunt. i'm with GEREP.Their is strength in numbers and the more hunters the more strength.