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Author Topic: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting  (Read 3778 times)

Offline LC

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2007, 10:34:00 PM »
Ok heres my take on this subject. Is bowhunting and hunting in general going too techno! ABSOLUTELY! Is the killing range extending from this in both archery and muzzleloading! ABSOULTELY! So why is the deer population expanding despite long seasons. SIMPLE! The average hunter does not or will not kill does like they use to! For years the percentage of hunters killing deer with a bow or muzzleloader was 10% give or take. And of those 10% a big majority was does. Basically everyone  was tickled to just take a doe. Now adays with all the TV shows,  Videos, food plots, timed feeders, etc and Record book mentality most "hunters" aren't happy with does! The DNR in most places  respond with rising numbers of does by increasing the number of tags available. The problem is most "hunters" won't can't butcher their own deer so they pay on the cheap side $35 bucks to have their deer cut up. The cuts suck they don't eat it so the next year they pay $125 for slim jims, summer saugage etc. It tastes great but who the heck wants or will pay for seven doe tags filled times $125! Yeap they could learn to cut up their own deer so their family would rather have deer than beef BUT they don't show that on $Mossy$Oak$Outdoors$. Not picking on Mossy Oak heck I own some but perfer plaid just used them $$$ for a example$. Oh well thats my thoughts.
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Offline xia_emperor

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2007, 10:50:00 PM »
I am a doe slayer and Cow elk slayer as well and yet people that I have talked to(trad people), say the same thing as LC. it seems strange to me. I think that ELK DEER what ever I hunt taste good to me and I would rather butcher my own kill. it is part of the fun.
“instinctive archery” is more like playing the violin. Without practice you may remember the mechanics, but you will not be a virtuoso.

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Offline jonesy

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2007, 11:10:00 PM »
I know of many places in il where you have to kill a doe before you kill a buck and  still no impact on the deer population truth of the matter is the winters are not as cold because the earth is going through a warming cycle, and the does are puntchin out two young every year which are surviving the warm winters,also it is hard as hell to find private land to hunt. i personally dont think most hunters are trophy hunters.

Offline LC

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2007, 12:02:00 AM »
Personally I'd love to see a earn a buck program in my state. BUT with that law you'd need to enforce it and with one Game warden per county in my home state it would never fly. Heck in 30 years of bowhunting I've never seen or been checked by a Game warden while hunting or engaged in hunting or driving to or away from hunting. Your lucky to see one or two in a years time passing on the highway.

I personally don't think most hunters are trophy hunters either. The key word their is "trophy". The local DNR holds a annual bowhunters survey where huntes volunteralily report times hunted, game seen, taken etc. They post the resulsts every year and  the kill percentage hasn't changed for eons but the percentage of bucks and does sure has. 90% of the bowhunters hold out and kill a bucks "trophy" . Now that may be a spike, four point etc cause their truly ain't that many trophy bucks in my home state and killing bucks doesn't do alot to reduce deer population as all us true hunters know. They've expanded the doe seasons here every year for the last several years but still never meet their expectations by hunting. Why? My believe based on talking to local hunters is as stated above most guys do not butcher their own deer and are not gona pay to have 7 does butchered every year. Especially considering the macho mind set it ain't macho to kill a doe. Think about it how often do you see a picture of someone with a doe as compared with a buck. Years ago the local newspaper would include pics of bowhunters with does! Now adays he'd better be a new state record or close to it.To prove the point for the last couple years locally you cand send in your pic with game taken for a small fee of $20 to the local paper. I've not seen one picture of someone with a doe. All of this above is to back up my point that just because you still have long bow seasons doesn't mean all is well with hunting in general.
Most people get rich by making more money than they have needs, me, I just reduced my needs!

Offline snag

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2007, 01:29:00 AM »
Game management? Heck, in some states like Oregon they have made laws that have turned predators into their management tools...and if it keeps going this way the predators will replace us as the ONLY management tool...wolves are crossing over into Oregon now. Look what they have done in parts of Idaho.  This is just what the environ-treehugging-tofu eating crowd want.  No hunters, just nature.
Isaiah 49:2...he made me a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver.

Offline GEREP

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2007, 07:21:00 AM »
One other thing that I think is important and should be mentioned is this notion that modern compound bows are 80 yard killing machines.  I agree, modern bows have gotten pretty technologically advanced.  Having said that, not much has really changed in real life bowhunting situations.  Whether we choose to use traditional equipment or modern equipment, bowhunting is primarily a "30 yard and in" endeavor.  For probably 90% of all bowhunters, its "20 yards and in."  Yes, its easier to become proficent with modern equipment.  Yes, you can be accurate out to pretty impressive yardages.  Having said that, I know very few if any compound users that would take a shot at live game at anywhere close to those ranges (and quite frankly, those that would try shots at those ranges would probably try the same stunt with their recurve or longbow)  Yep, you have 50 or 60 yard stakes at the 3D events but how often don't we read about all the trad guys and gals that routinely practice out to 80 yards with there recurves and longbows?  

I have friends that routinely shoot 300 with over 55 X's on the NFAA 300 round yet still manage to completely  miss or worse yet, wound deer at normal hunting ranges.  Regardless of what the marketing says, technology quite often does not translate into hunting success.  Actually, I think it could be said that it very seldom translates.  Traditional or modern, bowhunting is still about scouting, playing the wind, getting close and being able to close the deal.  All the technology in the world isn't going to help you if you don't hunt where the game is.  Another 100fps isn't going to help you much when the buck of a lifetime comes in down wind.  Fiber optic sights don't do much good when all you see in them is a white flag.  Last but not least, when we shoot an indoor NFAA 300 round, there isn't 6 hours between shots in sub freezing weather and fortunately Mackenzie targets never jump the string. (well, at least not usually but I swear I've seen it happen...lol)  Sometimes I really have to laugh at what I read on some of these sites.  Literally, how many hundreds of times have we all read and even wrote about how traditional equipment is the "better" hunting equipment?  How many hundreds of times have we read about switching back to traditional because of all the things that can and do go wrong with modern equipment in the field?  How many hundreds of times have we heard that switching to traditional has made us "better hunters?"  Now we want to say the sky is falling because all those things that don't work in the field, are working to well in the field?
    :confused:    

I guess the argument could be made that technology does attract more hunters and therefore when you have more hunters vying for a finite resource, limitations on seasons and bag limts may have to be made but I think that's a stretch.  If we say we want more hunters to protect what we enjoy (the right to hunt), we must also be prepared for what additional boots on the ground means.  Personally, what I think it all boils down to is that many of us don't want other's hunting "our" elk, or "our" deer or "our" bear.  At the end of the day, it has very little do do with wheels, sights or back tension releases. In my home state of Michigan, if we had 375,000 traditional bowhunters, and no modern bowhunters, would things really be all that different than what they are today?  I don't really think so.

    :campfire:    

KPC
To the best of my knowledge, no man, on his death bed, ever said "I wish I had spent more time at the office..."

Offline jonesy

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2007, 08:13:00 AM »
Couldnt have wrote it any better. GEREP

Offline Straitshot

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2007, 03:39:00 PM »
I am amazed at how many people have missed what Norm was attempting to say. Norm was not attempting to hammer compound bowhunters in general. He was attempting to expose bowhunting's constant trend toward easy success without dedication and sacrifice. Which by the way can and does include traditional bowhunters. It is precisely why I no longer desire to encourage many individuals to become bowhunters any more. Frankly, if you are unwilling to put forth the dedication and sacrifice the sport truly requires then find another method of hunting. The bowhunting community does not need you!

 He also hinted at our unwillingness as a whole to exercise selfcontrol over our incessant need for easy success. Unchecked it becomes like the proverbial snow ball. Once it begins rolling it grows larger and larger. If one's desire is to move from a primitive culture to a more modern and advanced culture then unlimited technology is a good thing. However, unlimited technology in a primitive sport will eventually only render it modern and ultimately the loss of it's true identity. At some point it will loose those identifying marks that first drew us to it. My point being that our constant unabated selfish desire to always want to make things easier for our own success, to take more and bigger game, or to shoot bigger and better scores than someone else, only fuels the flames of technological advancement. To keep the sport of bowhunting a "Primitive" sport requires limits, and limits will require selfcontrol on both our parts, compound and traditional, if future generations are to enjoy the sport as we have been able to enjoy it.

Louis
A man's true measure is not found in what he says, but in what he does.

Offline yleecoyote23

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2007, 03:45:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Straitshot:
 To keep the sport of bowhunting a "Primitive" sport requires limits, and limits will require selfcontrol on both our parts, compound and traditional, if future generations are to enjoy the sport as we have been able to enjoy it.

Louis
Well said Louis.

I also enjoyed the article/interview about Norm. He sounds like a very insightful person.
In the beautiful Davis Mountains and lovin' every minute - Danny

Offline tim roberts

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2007, 09:49:00 PM »
It is kind of funny that most of us who are parents wish for a better and easier life for our kids....Yet when we see some newbie come walking out of the woods with a nice buck bull,or read about it in some rag and this newbie is loaded with all the latest greatest gadetry, it ruffles our feathers.  By the way Louis I agree with you!  :thumbsup:   This isn't bowhunting to us.  To most of us bowhunting is pitting our woodmanship skills against an animal whose only job is livin, and staying that way!  Most of us who have spent time in the woods know that a doe or a cow that has been around for a few years of putting fawns and calfs on the ground, is no dummy, and a true test for a close range hunter.  I belive that when we get to the very bottom of this debate we will find that it is this "Loss of Identity" that worries us most.  
So what can be done to keep the "Hunting the Hard Way" identity closely assoicated with bowhunting, and more so with traditional bowhunting?  Some think that the best way to do this is to dictate the gear that we can use, including the materials that some of it is made from.  Others belive that re writting the rules to the record books is a way to go, and there are many other ideas out there.  Myself, I have to agree some what, on redefining what a trophy is.  When it gets down to the nuts and bolts of this issue though, I feel that education is a meaningful way of handling this.  In the Tim Pool, and before era of bowhunter education there was a lot of time and a lot of information in the bowhunter education manuals about the history of modern day bowhunting.  Today in the M. Bentz era there is but a few small paragraphs, that do nothing more than mention a few names, not much at all about what they did to promote bowhunting.  Very few "Newbies" today know of, Ishi, Will Compton, or Glenn St.Charles, and the list goes on.  In todays world it is go buy a bow put on all the latest greatest gadets, sprinkle with water and a bowhunter instantly appears.  
A very large part of the Traditional Values of Bowhunting, is working and practicing to become more profecient with the gear that we choose to hunt with.  Work and practice is not something that the ATA can package and sell, so it has no value to them, but to those of us who still belive that hunting the hard way is the way to go, it means everything, and when everything comes together it can't be bought for all the money in the world!

>>>Tim------->
Tim

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I guess if we run into the bear that is making these tracks, we oughta just get off the trail.......He seems to like it!  
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Offline MCNSC

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2007, 10:40:00 PM »
It has always puzzled me that most all bowhunters say they enjoy bowhunting for the challenge, and then look at the measures that they will go too to make it easier. I quess you can add muzzle loaders in there too.
 Mike
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Offline Orion

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2007, 10:50:00 PM »
Pretty much nailed it Louis.

Offline ChuckC

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2007, 11:09:00 PM »
Haven't gotten my copy yet, haven't read the article.  However...until the deer herd is drastically reduced (I am in Wisconsin), I seriously doubt there will be any reductions taking place. They are begging us to kill deer.  In some areas for the last several years we have had unlimited tags.  If and when that changes, then all bets are off.
ChuckC

Offline johnnail

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2007, 06:55:00 AM »
Tom Mussatto:

Tom, your comment reflects one I've held for many years. I know YOUNG guys who are so fat and soft, they couldn't stand the hump of hunting all day in the mountains, and "accomplished" hunters who only know how to hunt from a tree.
The above was not meant as a slam, only to show how very Easy and scientific bowhunting has become.   It's a long way from the old "walk in the woods" idea.
I don't mean to sound holier than. Only to point out what I believe to be a wrong turn we've taken.
this is certainly a pointed conversation....

Offline GEREP

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2007, 09:38:00 AM »
What I think is kind of interesting is this notion that somehow traditional bowhunters are somehow better hunters, more dedicated to mastering their craft, more able to hunt (physically) and overall have more respect for their quarry than our modern counterparts.  Simple nonsence really.  You have people that are in great physical shape in both camps, dedication is not unique to traditional bowhunters and some of the most ethical hunters I know use modern equipment.  You simply can't paint with such a broad brush. With all due respect, do we now need to set rules on weight limits, body mass index, and cardiovascular capability in order to truly be one of the "real" bowhunters.    

The "technology train" is one that each individual has to make a choice as to where to get off.  Many people seem to want to draw the line coincidentally, right at where they got off.  Interesting huh?

Norm himself stated in his interview that he has switched to a CNC machine in the production of his bows.  Can it be construed that he himself has given in to the trappings of technology?  I certainly don't think so but it certainly could be implied by some of the opinions here.  Or is it that bowyers can use all technology available but the end users (hunters) can't?  

Could someone please explain to me how "Individual A," in an attempt to make a living doing what he loves, endorses products that he uses, uses modern equipment, writes books and articles, etc. can be labled as a pariah on the sport, accused of being in it "just for the money" and has lost all sense of what "bowhunting was meant to be."

Now, "Individual B,"  In an attempt to make a living doing what he loves, uses the utmost in computer technology to increase production, uses what he thinks are the best and most suitble materials for his product and in effect endorses them because after all, he sells them, even though they may be on the cutting edge of technology, maybe writes books and articles for about "traditional archery and bowhunting" and somehow this individual is a "keeper of the flame?"

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but it seems that a little consistency would be in order.

Just my humble opinion, but what do I know?  This is coming from an overweight, 40 something guy that has hunted with a bow and arrow for over 30 years, that chooses to hunt deer from treestands, bears over bait, spot and stalk hogs, pheasant on the wing and carp in the shallows and porcupines that chew my cabin in any lethal manner I can find, including but not limited to a baseball bat.     :thumbsup:  

KPC
To the best of my knowledge, no man, on his death bed, ever said "I wish I had spent more time at the office..."

Offline IndianaBowman

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2007, 12:53:00 PM »
It isn't about killing! It's about public perception and our future ability to bowhunt. We as bowhunters were once held in fairly high regard by the non-hunting public due to the perception of pitting our skills and woodsmanship against the wiley critters of the forest. It isn't that way anymore. The technology has changed the perception of the non-hunting public who will legislate out our existence. Following is an article I wrote for ATHA a while back. I think it still holds true.

“Wow, what a buck! He’s 60 yards out, but I can make the shot;” Bubba thought to himself. Bubba drew his 85% let-off, 70#, dual cam compound bow, with his three ball-bearing ultra smooth trigger release, and settled his 60-yard fiber optic pin on the buck. Upon squeezing the trigger the rest dropped away and the 200-grain, spiral wrapped carbon arrow with the 85-grain expanding mechanical head was on its way! At 330 fps it only took a nanosecond for the arrow to find its mark. The buck traveled about 50 yards before expiring in a heap. Bubba was ecstatic! He couldn’t help but think to himself that his carbon-filtered camo had kept the buck from smelling him. He was also proud of himself for shooting a buck he had on film from his trail camera. The buck was indeed magnificent. Five matching points per side and long tines and width. The buck would surely score well above the P&Y minimum. Bubba’s first buck eligible for the “books”!

Many would see this as a fantastic example of what bowhunting embodies today. Utilizing every technological advantage to take a great animal. It was all completely legal and exactly what the outdoor hunting shows depict on a daily basis. So, what’s wrong with the above scenario? The 60-yard shot, the scent shielding suit, the ultra fast bow, the trail camera, the 85% let-off bow?

The above scenario fails to address one of the core elements of a successful hunt, the chase! Only half of the equation was satisfied, the kill! To kill is not success unless accompanied by the chase. Vance Bourjaily eloquently stated this interrelationship in his article “Hunting is Humane” in the February 15, 1964 issue of the Saturday Evening Post. “The two parts of the sequence must occur together, or there is no satisfaction. Killing, and this is generally misunderstood, is not pleasure at all if the challenge of hunting does not accompany it.”  Most will agree that the feeling of accomplishment, pride, satisfaction, and culmination of a truly successful hunt, is not the size or score of the animal harvested, but in the effort and energy expended in the pursuit! In fact, a truly successful hunt often times does not even include the killing of an animal. Robert Ruark summarized a short anecdotal quotation as follows: “There was a Russian school of acting which once maintained stoutly that a good tragic actor had to suffer. The same must be true of all hunters… The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition.”  Theodore Roosevelt was also a student of the chase, as evidenced in the following quote: “Of course in hunting one must expect much hardship and repeated disappointment; and in many a camp, bad weather; lack of shelter; hunger; thirst, or ill success with game, renders the days and nights irksome and trying. Yet the hunter worthy of the name always willingly takes the bitter if by so doing he can get the sweet, and gladly balances failure and success, spurning the poorer souls who know neither.”  I would venture a guess that Bubba is a poor soul.  

I doubt Bubba is alone in his lack of knowledge concerning the chase.  Bubba is most likely a late 20s to early 40s guy who grew up on instant information and gratification. The television and Internet have brought a whole world of information and experiences into his home at the touch of a button. The problem lies in that the whole story is not being shown or described. It is simply a glimpse of a series of events and a choreographed ending to provide instant gratification and satisfaction to Bubba. What are we to expect of Bubba?  All he knows is that you can purchase product “X” and have nearly instant success as depicted on TV. Of course, success doesn’t come that easy; therefore there must be another short cut or gadget that Bubba overlooked. The killing of game ultimately comes, but at the expense of shortcutting the wilderness experience. The technology available allows this!  It is technology that most threatens our sport of bowhunting. Not only for traditionalist, but also for all bowhunters. As technology advances and shortcuts emerge the chase is lessoned and the kill increased.

Dedicated seasons for bowhunting were developed in recognition of the fact that bowhunting is supposed to be hard. The allotted days a field were apportioned in direct relationship with the degree of difficulty for attainment of management goals. Success rates for bowhunters are soaring, and it is only prudent to expect the allotted number of days a field to be reduced.  I also submit that the chase is also lessoned as described above. This interrelationship of technology and diminished “thrill of the chase” is described in the following quote from Aldo Leopold: “Our tools for the pursuit of wildlife improve faster than we do, and sportsmanship is a voluntary limitation in the use of these armaments. It is aimed to augment the role of skill and shrink the role of gadgets in the pursuit of wild things…  I have the impression that the American sportsman is puzzled; he doesn’t understand what is happening to him. Bigger and better gadgets are good for industry, so why not for outdoor recreation? It has not dawned on him that outdoor recreations are essentially primitive, atavistic; that their value is contrast-value; that excessive mechanization destroys contrasts by moving the factory to the woods or to the marsh. The sportsman has no leaders to tell him what is wrong. The sporting press no longer represents sport; it has turned billboard for the gadgeteer. Wildlife administrators are to busy producing something to shoot at to worry much about the cultural value of the shooting."

Hunting in general is also threatened by technology. The days when the public perceived the hunter as one who matched wits with the beasts on a level playing field are long gone. Gone also is the prestige and allure of the sportsman. Theodore Roosevelt described the past allure and the sportsman as follows: “In hunting, the finding and killing of the game is after all but a part of the whole. The free, self-reliant, adventurous life, with its rugged and stalwart democracy; the wild surroundings, the grand beauty of the scenery, the chance to study the ways and habits of the woodland creatures – all these unite to give the career of the wilderness hunter its peculiar charm.” The charm is gone and the public now sees a fully gadgeted nimrod heading a field to slay the defenseless creature.  Technology has eliminated the defenses of the prey. Instinctive safety zones of game have been breached. Superior eyesight, sense of smell, and the desire to procreate are all addressed and manipulated by technology to increase kill rates.

It is the general non-hunting population who will determine our hunting future. If the degradation of the hunter, in the minds of Joe Public continues, they will legislate out our ability to pursue game.

I choose to self-limit and pursue game, not just kill it. I choose this for the reason verbalized by Sitting Bull, “when the buffalo are gone, we will hunt mice, for we are hunters and we want our freedom.”  I want my freedom and to use every form of technology and gadget available ensures nothing more than “Techno Death”.

A closing prayer to our future by Saxton Pope: “May the gods grant us all space to carry a sturdy bow and wander through the forest glades to seek the bounding deer; to lie in the deep meadow grasses; to watch the flight of birds; to smell the fragrance of burning leaves; to cast an upward glance at the unobserved beauty of the moon. May they give us the strength to draw the string to the cheek, the arrow to the barb and loose the flying shaft, so long as life may last.”

Offline doctorbrady

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2007, 01:02:00 PM »
Here, here GEREP!!!  Very well said.  
The one and only thing that differentiates us from compound shooters is our equipment.  For various reasons, we as traditional bowhunters choose to keep it simple.  Most of us do it because of the personal satisfaction that we get through the accomplishment of hitting our mark without the aid of formal sight aids or gadgets.  That said, most of us shoot bows or arrows which are manufactured through the same high tech processes as the compound guys.  We should be very careful to not make this a "we are better than you" endeavor.  You see how that mentality has already overflowed to include "less traditional" traditional bowhunters.  If you're shooting a stickbow so that you can shake your finger at someone who is not, you've missed the point, in my opinion.  Traditional bowhunting is a personal journey.  What each of us gains is a little different, as is our equipment.  Still, we all struggle to be a little better archer, hunter, and woodsman and should be careful in our finger pointing and criticism of others who do it just a little differently.

Offline johnnail

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2007, 01:22:00 PM »
My statement above had nothing to do with equipment.
this is certainly a pointed conversation....

Offline doctorbrady

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2007, 02:39:00 PM »
John,
Percentage wise, I am sure that there are just as many out of shape guys shooting self bows and more modern traditional gear as there are compound shooters.  All of us would like to see everybody in this sport of hunting to be better woodsmen.  We like to see guys like Schafer who can carry themselves and their buds out of the mountains on their backs.  However, most will never be able to do that, no matter what kind of hunting gear they have in their hands.  It is easy for us to say that these high tech recurves or souped up compounds are destroying our sport by allowing "slob hunters" into our ranks.  Though it takes less time and effort for most to shoot a compound than it does a stickbow, that doesn't make all "techys" bad hunters, or even less of a hunter.  In fact, I suspect that it is all the gadgets that have turned so many folks back to the basics of traditional gear.  It may be the very process that has increased our numbers.  I stopped shooting compounds 15 years ago when the fun stopped.  If it ever happens with trad gear, I will start using a slingshot  :) .  Still, it's unfair to catergorize an entire group of hunters or blame them for the potential destruction of our hunting seasons simply because we don't choose to shoot such equipment.

Offline WildmanSC

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Re: Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2007, 02:59:00 PM »
In the hands of the right shooter, a trad bow can be a relatively long range tool to harvest game.  I recently purchased and viewed the OverKill DVD featuring Ricky Welch.  Now mind you, Ricky is not your every day, run of the mill archer.  The man is almost a shooting machine.  I saw him harvest game, including turkey and pigs, out to 53+ yards.

Bill
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