Norm Johnson's remarks on the future of bowhunting

[pseman]

I keep thinking I'm gonna make a post on this topic but every thought that comes into my head gets posted by GEREP!LOL Keep going brother! I'll just keep reading.

Ditto everything GEREP has said.

By the way, if you're not some sort of official spokesperson for hunting, you should consider it. You make many excellent points.

[GEREP]

"By the way, if you're not some sort of official spokesperson for hunting, you should consider it. You make many excellent points."

ARE YOU KIDDING??  I'd just be happy to be the "official spokesperson" for my family.  As it stands right now, it's my 11 year old daughter.

   

   

KPC

[Talondale]

Talon, have you been out west? Do you know the demands on the resources out here?

Nate, I've fished and camped WY,CO,OR,WA,AK,and MT but I've never hunted any of it.  The regulations always seemed too convoluted for my tastes.  I'd like to though. So I'm no expert at west hunting but I do understand the dynamics and that some species have too large of a homerange to ever get their numbers near what they are out east.  Even if we could that wouldn't be best for the species health anyway. I understand what you're saying though.   We have similar issues here with farmland being bought up to make subdivisions.  Thankfully whitetail are able to adapt if there's any type of habitat left intact.  Habitat improvement isn't going to solve the problems out west but it can be a part of the solution.  I can't believe that all good habitat is being snapped up by real estate when in some states out west the Feds own 80% of the whole state unless the 20% the don't own are all the valleys.        

As far as tree huggers setting the agenda I think it's like most politics: The squeeky wheel gets the grease.  Most Americans are decent hard working people who don't have an opinion either way and are busy leading their own lives.  A few malcontents dedicate their lives to poking their noses into everyone elses life and if they can make enough noise to get the attention of a large segment of the populace who are busy running their own lives they can sometimes move them to do their bidding based on misrepresented "facts".  Most of those same people could be just as easily persuaded the other way if they were made to see things from our perspective but usually they don't have the time to listen to two camps argue so it's usually the group that gets to them first that wins.  That's why control of the popular culture (entertainment and "news") are important.  Unfortunately those two areas tend to lean the wrong way.  I'm not sure the one person at a time approach will work swiftly enough for us to forestall the oppositions plans.

[GEREP]

"A few malcontents dedicate their lives to poking their noses into everyone elses life and if they can make enough noise to get the attention of a large segment of the populace who are busy running their own lives they can sometimes move them to do their bidding based on misrepresented "facts". Most of those same people could be just as easily persuaded the other way if they were made to see things from our perspective but usually they don't have the time to listen to two camps argue so it's usually the group that gets to them first that wins."

BULLSEYE !!!!!

To carry that one step further, if those "malcontents" can manage to get one segment of the the hunting community to do their bidding for them (which apparrently they are able to do) it makes their job infinately easier.

We as bowhunters, modern or traditional, should not be willing to let that happen, much less encourage it.

   

KPC

[IndianaBowman]

Unfortunately, it is an up hill battle. Hunters in general are a solitary and "mostly" an unobtrusive bunch. Besides some hunters are just plain lazy and will not fight for their privilege of hunting. Jim Posewitz wrote about this relationship and the deferral of responsibility to others. Those of use who do openly and frequently defend the sport at all levels, locally, in the State Legislatures, and nationally, have the responsibility to sell the sport in the most compelling manner possible. The big campfire cumbayaa strategy is great in theory, but 95%+ of the hunters won't do diddley!

[doctorbrady]

This post continues to be a great read.  Lots of different opinions RESPECTFULLY given.
I am not familiar enough with the regs out west to chime in on the battle of lobbying for traditional only seasons.  In the south and midwest where I do most of my hunting, it certainly doesn't make any sense.  There is just too much game.  I can see the argument, perhaps, in quota areas, but even there I don't think a few gadgets on folks' bows make them that much more successful in the field.  Can they shoot 50 instead of 30 yards?  Maybe, but how much difference does that make.  We tout ourselves as hunters and woodsmen in one breath then gripe that the "slob hunting gizmo guys" are killing more game than us.  Am I missing the point.  If the techys are killing more stuff than us...and they are, it is primarily because there are more of them, and...I hate to say this, they can shoot better than most traditional guys...even at 20 yards.  Should we have limited seasons just for guys that shoot badly so that they don't take as many critters?  Surely not.  Personally, I am more successful in the woods than most of the compound shooters I know, simply because I put in the effort.  It doesn't anger me that I shoot all year and they only have to shoot the week or two before season.  I like to shoot anyway.  It doesn't tick me off that they can hit the kill zone on a deer target every time at 50 yards when I can't.  I'll just get 20 yards closer to critters I want to kill.  There are definitely differences in equpment, but they don't separate us by THAT much.  Rest assured, if any state opens longer traditional only seasons, there will be a lot of guys picking up stickbows the week before season and trying to take game.  A good example...when I was a teenager, my folks owned an archery shop in Arkansas.  Not too far away in Oklahoma they started having primitive weapons hunts on one of the military bases where there were some whopper deer.  A lot of guys would put in for the draw, and when they got drawn they would come in wanting to buy a recurve for their upcoming hunt.  That doesn't help us.  It hurts us.
Lastly, like it or not, this is a perception game with the non hunting public.  On our side is the fact that we are "doing it the hard way."   Against us is the fact that most of us can't hit a quarter at 50 yards, or even 20, every shot.  The easiest way for the antis to paint us as the bad guys is to paint us, the traditional bowhunters, as the slobs because we are less effecient hunters.  It is the same argument that has been used to shut down bow seasons in other countries while preserving rifle hunting.  They care less about the number of critters that we take than how effeciently we dispatch them.  Our strength is being the most effecient, ethical, and humane hunters that we can be and being able to articulate why we do what we do to others.  Our strength is also in numbers.  This is one of many reasons why we shouldn't malign other law abiding bow hunters. States simply don't sell enough tags to traditional bowhunters to make an archery season even worth their time. I, personally, don't mind being in the company of techy bowhunters.  It's simply not the way I choose to hunt.  Keep up the positive discourse.

[Jeff Strubberg]

You want to improve the perception of hunters to the non-hunting public?

Be a good neighbor.  A good parent.  Involved in your community.

Let folks know occasionally that you hunt.  That type of one on one impression lasts a heck of a lot longer than a tv spot.

[joebuck]

I disagree from a southern point of view. Most of our southern states DNR's have a very serious problem of controlling deer herds. What may eventualy happen is that some states will go to "hunt with what you want" ex starting sept 2 through dec 30. Norm may need to travel down here for a bowl of grits and have a "look see"

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by GEREP:
[QB] One other thing that I think is important and should be mentioned is this notion that modern compound bows are 80 yard killing machines.  


I agree, modern bows have gotten pretty technologically advanced.  Having said that,
not much has really changed in real life bowhunting situations.

Horse feathers!!!!

What has changed is the type of hunter carrying a bow.... the real life bowhunting situations are being ignored....the modern technology is giving a killing instrument which doesn't even look like a bow any longer, to wanna-be -hunters who don't respect our sport.....


 Whether we choose to use traditional equipment or modern equipment, bowhunting is primarily a "30 yard and in" endeavor.  For probably 90% of all bowhunters, its "20 yards and in."

This statement is absolutely false in present day.....

Maybe that WAS the case....but not any longer.....Take a good look around....

If in using the term "Bowhunters" you ment The True bow hunters, who respect the sport..... i'd have to agree with those figures.....There are not as many TRUE bow hunters out there any more as you would like to believe.....we are the minority......


 Yes, its easier to become proficient with modern equipment.  Yes, you can be accurate out to pretty impressive yardages.
 Having said that, I know very few if any compound users that would take a shot at live game at anywhere close to those ranges"


Obviously you really are not paying much attention to the majority of the modern bow hunters in the woods these days.....THEY ARE the majority now....the fact that you don't KNOW anyone that does that kind of shooting has nothing to do with FACTS....The FACTS are...that they outnumber the conscientious bowhunter, and do take ridiculously long shots, and wound as many animals as they harvest....These "So Called Bowhunters"  give the true bowhunter a bum representation......in the public eye, it don't look good....

 (and quite frankly, those that would try shots at those ranges would probably try the same stunt with their recurve or longbow)  Yep, you have 50 or 60 yard stakes at the 3D events but how often don't we read about all the trad guys and gals that routinely practice out to 80 yards with there recurves and longbows?

Good point here....but just how much practice would it take to be proficient with a trad bow out to 60 & 80 yards?

A guy can buy one of these new rocket launchers out there, and become proficient enough with sights to do the deed in two weeks.....

That's the whole point I'm trying to make here....the technology of compound bows is mutating into something that is not archery hunting any more....But they still call it archery hunting because they are still spitting arrows......it's nuts!!!

[Straitshot]

Although this post discusses differences regarding traditional and compound bowhunting I never wanted nor intended it to become another typical traditional vs compound debate. I would like to thank all who have and may continue to respectfully participate. There have been some excellent posts.

As we all know there are responsible compound bowhunters just as there are responsible traditional bowhunters and those traditionalists who take the holier-than-thou attitude over their responsible compound counterpart are way out of line. Thankfully, I have not sensed that here. The problem at hand does not lie simply in whether or not I shoot a compound or traditional equipment, but instead in a mind set that has permeated our culture to include not only our thinking but also in how we persue the things that bring us pleasure. Tragically it's about our Americanized incessant push to find the easy way to any and everything. It doesn't matter what gets lost along the way as long as my itch gets scratched first and often. The ends justifies the means, as long as I am number one. We don't want to have to work for it and we certainly don't want to have to make any sacrifices for it. We just want what we want and we want it RIGHT NOW with little, or better yet no effort. I believe this selfish type of mind set only fuels a growing need for easy unearned success and whether we like to admit it or not there is an industry anxiously waiting to satisfy that need for the next gadget that will make our habitual desire for easy success even easier. I have heard it said that our constant desire for more is only superseded by our desire to supply more.

It is my personal belief that the incidents we sometimes see on the internet or the nightly news about the goose, deer, or other animal attempting to survive after being shot with the field point tipped arrow was more than likely done by one of those irresponsible want-to-be "bowhunters"  eat up from head to toe with this selfish easy success mind set. Is this the mind set our children are learning to accept? Is the mind set that teaches honesty, hard work, patience, and self control being gradually eroded away?

I do see traditional and compound archery as two different paths. There are similiarities yet there are some ways quite different. Is one path better than the other? That is for each to choose and decide for himself, but what is required regardless of which path you take is to act responsibly and with integrity. In my personal oppinion we need to earnestly seek and recapture a mind set which taught us that success is weighted not only by the end results but also the means by which it is accomplished.

Thanks, Louis

[IndianaBowman]

Jeff Strubberg - excellent point! I have to agree! Being a great example out of the woods is probably going to be the key!

I also appreciate the civil manner of this thread. Thank you to everyone.

[GEREP]

Kirkll:

"A guy can buy one of these new rocket launchers out there, and become proficient enough with sights to do the deed in two weeks....."  

If you are attributing this quote to me, sorry I didn't make it...nor do I agree with it.  

With all due respect, you refer to "FACTS" that are just simply not facts at all.  It may well be your experience or your perception of what may happen in your neck of the woods, but its just not happening as you describe it in my neck of the woods.   I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a fact, but I suspect you can take this one to the bank.  There is certain segment of the hunting population that is going to push the limit in regard to ethical shot distances and hunting tactics.  What some people fail to realize (or simply just deny) is that this is a personality flaw, not an equipment flaw.  Do you think for one second that if we legislate equipment limits, all the unethincal "hunters" are simply going to change and become what you refer to as "real bowhunters" or just give up bowhunting all together?  How naive is that?  

I sense that this thread is starting to get a little personal so I'm going to bow out.  Before I do however I would like to reiterate one thing.  For the betterment of hunting, we MUST get beyond this notion that there are "real" bowhunters and something else based on chosen equipment.  We MUST also get beyond this rediculous notion that just because you carry a longbow or recurve, you are somehow more worthy and you are doing the right thing as far as carrying the torch.  I have been to quite a few traditional shoots and I can say quite confidently that either the good shooters choose not to shoot, or the effective range of the masses is about 7 yards (give or take about 4 yards) but they all get a pass because the carry the right stick and carry a leather back quiver.  

Last but not least, technology is not what is going to threaten bowhunting.  This constant bickering about what is "real" bowhunting and what is not, and the FACT that many of us seem to be more than willing to throw other hunters hunder the train in an attempt to get what they want is what is eventually going to end bowhunting.  

I know it's not popular but the truth seldom is.

       

KPC

[ChuckC]

You know.....I worry about this for another reason.  Hunting and fishing and shooting is in my blood.  I don't know why I do it, I just do. A very large portion of my free time revolves around reading about or doing, something relating to the outdoors.

If it becomes illegal to hunt, or fish, or own a gun...then what ?  I am not so certain I will just put my "stuff" away and listen.  I have a feeling there are a TON of others who feel the same.   Then what ?  

This opens the door to lots of unsavory thoughts, and it worries me greatly.
I hope I am worrying for nothing.
ChuckC

[IndianaBowman]

GEREP, the big tent theory is not going to work. The fact is that VERY few will do anything to support bowhunting. I believe it is a little like the AK47 scenario with guns. The general population believes there is no real purpose for that type of weapon. Yet, they are OK with hunting guns. Likewise, they don't perceive a lot of value in a ton of technology for hunting.

I also agree that what you are toting around in the woods does not define you as a hunter. It is how you act when no one is looking!

[Labs4me]

Just a question based on an observation;

Why is it that, with these meat and potato variety topics - i.e., these politically touchy issues- that the "who's who" of bowhunting never seem to offer up an opinion. Surely you are following this post and have an opinion on the topic.

What say you, Byron, Gene, Barry, Ron, Tim, et al.

[Van/TX]

When the "special archery seasons" are finally eliminated we will see who keeps hunting with bows and arrows.   ...Van

[LC]

When the "special archery seasons" are finally eliminated we will see who keeps hunting with bows and arrows.  ...Van

Good point Van. I think that would be most of the fine folks that have replied to this thread and all the others who have just read through it.I think the cream of the crop visit this site.

Lots of good points and thoughts from both sides of this issue. Heres my final thoughts on this issue.

Some folks in a nutshell says that with all the advancements we have in a archery it's still a 20 yard and in sport, thats where most of the killing takes place. Thats true without a doubt. I'd be willing to bet that most kills are around 25 yards and under. Notice I said kills. Problem is there are lots of folks that take longer shots with the same equipment because of all the advertising and 3D shooting are convinced they can make longer shots with poor results. My best bud works at a  professional archery shop. The folks come in there all the time and drop 8 hundred on a bow,100 on fiber optic sights with 6 pins,  80 on a release, 120 on a drop away rest, 120 on light weight carbon arrows. 50 on open on impact broadheads. Are they doing this to go bowhunting and only take 20 yard shots? They go to 3D ranges to shoot where the average shot is probably 35+ yards.I've been to a couple that didn't have a single 20 yard shot on the course. They leave there satisfied they can consistently hit what they are aiming at to 60 yards. Do most of them wait or pass on shots till one comes into they 20 yard range. From the stories I hear regularly I regret and hate to say it but  NO.

I agree totally just because of the equipment you carry doesn't make you a ethical bowhunter. I too know several "compound" hunters that are top notch moral and ethical hunters. I also know several "trad" hunters who should be spending more time at the practice butts. I regularly hunt with a compound hunter who will not take a shot over 15 yards even though he can regularly bust a ping pong ball at 30 yards!! By the way he hunts strickly from the ground also.

Lastly I'd like to restate my arguement that just because your local wildlife populations are still too high with even all the "modern high tech" weapons that all must be well is bull crap. Reread what I posted earlier I still stand by it, too many folks are caught up in the "trophy" only hunting and are not taking enough deer for management purposes. I honestly think  most every state now adays could have a deer a day season and still not meet the quota. Why? Simply most guys will not shoot does anymore and simply because most pay to  have their game processed and are not going to fork over the money to process any number of deer. Sad they'd get some great venison if they'd learn or take the time to process their own.

I've been very fortunate to bowhunt from as far north, south, east and west on this continuent as one can go and my pereceptions seems to be the same where ever I go so I personally don't think it's a matter of loacality as to how this debate is seen.

[Brian Krebs]

I started out in bowhunting when there were no compound bows; and thus; nobody hunted with them.
 The bowhunters the public saw were mostly in the time between the time it took to change reels at the movie theatre.
 Fred Bear and Howard Hill were the most seen guys out there. Fred was a gentleman; Hill was more of a showman- not to 'nock him'; it was just his way.
Both were though HAVING FUN when they shot.
 So were other people. Goodness sakes; Robin Hood  shooting and splitting his own arrow was a cool thing was it not?
 But we saw as kids- people shooting bows accurately and taking game consistantly. But fun; it was moderated as fun; and done with fun built right into it.
 I shot a Ben Pearson that I lent out before I went into the service; and when I got out- people were shooting compounds. The local sporting goods store only sold compounds. I bought a compound.
  I went though from having fun; to missing and looking at my bow. Did the cables stretch; was my sight off; and missing was no longer something I could laugh at- my god I had to find out WHY I MISSED!
  I have told the story before about shooting a bear whitetail hunter; which had more wheels than a semi- and shooting little groups at 30 yards.
 Then I bought some razorback 5 broadheads and shot them; and missed the hay bales completely.
  Know what this dumba$$ did? I called Fred Bear. I didn't know him save shaking his hand at the museam he had; but I got his phone number and called him up!
 Gosh what a guy! He told me eventually that my fletch was not helical; and that I needed to get some helical fletched arrows.
  It worked; but jeepers; he talked to me for an hour while we tried to figure out what my shooting problem was.
  Fred did it because he loved archery; and wanted everyone to love it.
  I started hating missing - I had compounds break in half in my hand in competition because I wanted that arrow to be totally perfect. I got target panic; and when one bow broke in competition and the company gave me a brand new- newer model.. I went out carp fishing with it. I sold it; took the money and bought a takedown Bear recurve.
  I missed shots; but when I did; I had to think about what 'I' had done wrong.
  It was all about me. The bow worked good enough to kill a running ground hog at over 30 yards; and if I missed a buck at 6 feet; it was MY doing.
 I have never looked back.
What I do see is that money in our society can buy anything you want. Anything.
 Handfed deer and elk - shot with BB guns to make them 'wild' for the guy with the money. High fences; high standards...not about how much fun you had; but how big a bull or buck or bear you got.
  I have gone to many shoots where there are compound shooters and trad shooters; and can anyone say that they have been to such a shoot and   not seen the way the two differ? Stakes for the trad shooters right next to the stakes for the kids with compounds.
  But the laughter is coming from the trad guys. That is a fact. I have been in competitions many times when the trad guy stranger says ' here shoot my bow' right in the middle of the competition!
  Because he was having fun; and I was having fun; and shooting someone elses bow and arrow set up is FUN!
  Remember Fred Bear shooting at the Grizzly bear and missing; and how he let the moderator make fun of him? He was a serious hunter; but he saw the humor in missing!
  What scares me the most about this whole situation is when I hear ( and I have) compound shooters say they want 'profeciency testing'; and when they say they don't mind giving up "THEIR" bow season time to keep a little longer time to hunt with a gun.
 Here in Idaho we had a game biologist; the head game biologist tell anti hunters in an anti-hunter group that bear baiting should be outlawed because " with the new compounds- anyone can take a bear with a bow nowdays!".
  He was a great guy; he said something that he felt as a gun hunter looking at bow hunting. Fact was and is- in the same seasons; a gun hunter can sit in the treestand over bait and they certainly have an accuracy advantage and a range advantage- but he pointed out the technology advances of compound bows.
 Here is something I have NOT heard here yet; and that is that the law has changed when it comes to muzzleloaders. A convicted felon can no longer get out of jail or prison and hunt with a muzzleloader because they are not a primative weapon anymore.
  I am not a convicted felon or a convicted misdemeanor person- but that decision should have shook us.
 Because - the court could see that the new muzzleloaders : inline; gauranteed out of the box accuracy -- made the muzzleloader a weapon; a real weapon that bad guys should not have.
  And 'bad guys' can mean and do mean to many- from antihunters too non-hunters:too hunters!!.....'people that could not pass a profeciency test'.
  Wake up. Just look at what just happened in Africa! four years ago I talked with a judge that has now retired to hunt full time in Africa.
 He told me 4 years ago that "rich people were buying presighted compounds and going out and making bad shots on game".
 Look what happened.
That was numbers of hunters; and people that were not devoted to bowhunting and only devoted to getting 'credit' [sic] for shooting something with a bow.
  It is soooo hard for us to get together on anything as bowhunters because we come from different localities with different realities.
 In some states hunting is a RIGHT; in most a 'priviledge'. The numbers of animals to hunt varies; the amount of public land and the preasures on it varies; and we all come from the angle of knowing our own situation and making judgments from that and that alone.
  I am guilty too.
Vans comment about letting them do away with the bow seasons and see who hunts then - quite frankly makes me ill. I do not at all disrespect Van- gosh we all love him. But getting to the point where archery seasons are gone to see what things would be like is perhaps a funny jest; but in reality-- it is where we are headed.
 Because we are afraid to stand up for what we believe in; and we don't even have a grasp of that - that we can put into words.
 Collectively the anti hunters are acting with tons of money behind them in one direction; and we  hunters are going ten different directions and none of us seem to accept the challenge of taking a stand.
  And we had better.
Recently the horrible shootings at Virginia Tech ended up with the "realization" [sic] that we need to stop people from getting guns ( weapons people weapons- and now muzzloaders are weapons) from people who are judged ' a danger to themselves or others'.
  WE have a whole bunch of veterans coming back home that are exceeding the Veitnam percentage of the existance of PTSD.
 Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.
And it looks like those people; as they are a danger to themselves or others by definition of the condition: are not going to be able to own a weapon.
 "thanks for watching your friends die and be maimed for life- and bravely serving your country" "now that the effects of being in a war longer than WW2 have hit you- ask for help: and you CAN NEVER OWN A GUN OR MUZZLELOADER OR BOW  AGAIN!!"
  Do I want people to know that there is a difference between the compound bow and the traditional bow? YES!!
  We see on tv 99% of bowhunters waiting for the chance to "pull the trigger" ( on their release) and send an arrow flying. And that's not the way I see bowhunting.
 And yes I think its time we drew a line and said this is the way traditional hunters look at bowhunting; and this is the way compound bowhunters look at it.
 And I do not want to be in the compound hunter definition. Even though as pointed out it doesn't mean less desire or commitment to be either.
  Look at your tvs people. Your kids are; the non hunting kids are! Do you know what "JUST ROAR" means to US???
  I don't believe most lemming intentionally fall to their deaths of cliffs. I think they get in the  group and when it gets too big they get pushed where the group gets pushed to.
  Lets not let that happen to us; because while we joke and twidle our thumbs the anti hunters are out there recruiting kids against us in MASSIVE numbers.
  I know it is easy to just run from it and go have some fun shooting your bow- just like I do and will continue to do.
  But trust me; if we do not wake up to reality; we will be pushed off the cliff with guys who slap down big dollars to kill high fence tame animals and call it hunting.
  Again- look at Africa; and remember that our new game biologist are people trained to look to the future; and that future right now that they see is what is availible for them to see!!!
  I remember Marion Johnson- do you Gerep?

[GEREP]

Brian:

I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore but since you directly asked me a question, I thought it would be rude not to respond.  No, I don't remember Marion Johnson.

As a side note, I shoot traditional equipment becuase I enjoy it.  Like you, I think it's fun.  If it isn't about fun, I don't want to do it any longer.  When my buddies and I shoot a 3D course, whether it be for fun or competition, it still is all about a good time.  Anyone that knows me outside of this forum will most certainly tell you that seriousness is not one of my strong points.  Having said that, I don't know how you can reconcile the two beliefs that one needs to be dedicated, ethical, and in keeping with what traditional bowhunting values are supposed to be and yet find it "funny" to miss shots on game.  In my opinion, the only thing good about a "miss" is that you didn't make a poor "hit." Missing shots on game makes me sick to my stomach, as I think it should. Even worse is hitting an animal poorly.  I also believe that when someone decides to release an arrow on a living creature, it's pretty serious business.  If that release results in a miss, in my opinion, reflection on "why" is indeed in order.  Was it me?  Was it my equipment? Did I pick a spot? Was my shooting lane clear?  Did I shoot at the most opportune time?  Was the animal calm?  Was he moving...and on and on and on.  When I miss an animal, I want to know why.  I don't ever want it to happen again, even though I know it probably will.

With all due respect Brian, one thing I do find funny is the notion that people are attracted to traditional equipment because then they have no excuses.  "It's not the equipment, it's me..."  Let's be honest with ourselves here.  We are all human beings.  How many bows have you personally owned in the last ten years?  Have you tried different arrow materials?  Different broadheads?  Tip weight?  Arrow weight?   Different string materials?  I know I have.  If most of us wern't constantly looking for THE right combination of equipment (the Holy Grail, if you will) most custom bowyers would be out of business.  We all want to shoot better and score when it counts.  May I ask you a "do you remember" question now?  How many times, in all the threads that you have read, on all the traditional archery forums that you visit, have you read "Well boys, my new XYZ bow doesn't shoot nearly as good as my previous 13 bows, as a matter of fact it don't shoot worth a Da**, but she's a keeper cuz man is she pretty?  Let's face it, if equipment didn't matter and it was all about "us" the classifieds would be empty and we both know thats not the case.  

I don't know you Brian but I do respect your opinions.  For all I know, you only shoot primative equipment of your own making.  If this is the case, my hat's off to you and the above does not apply to you, seriously. But you and I know it applies to the VAST majority of us.

One thing I do find funny about this whole crazy sport is when I read the posts of some people that want to keep things simple, the way they used to be.  You know, never looking for the easy way out, never looking for the "edge," never giving in to the trappings of technology...then two days later I hear (read) the same person saying that they just got their new ACS or their new DAS.  How they are getting the energy of a 50 lb bow and they're only shooting 43 lbs.  (NO, I don't think this is a bad thing so all you ACS and DAS fans, take a breath...lol  Heck, I've got a modified Hoyt Gamemaster that I love shooting.)  We just need to be honest with ourselves and be consistent.

As I said before, let's not let the romance of what we all do cloud our judgement about what we are up against with those that want to put an end to it all.  I know, I've been told on this very thread that the "big tent" does not work.  Tell that to the lone wolf trying to take down a moose.

   

KPC

[Ybuck]

No matter the weapon, if your hunting legally and with respect for your quarry, your all good in my book!