Any bowyers honor second owner in warranty period?

[LBR]

The other side of the coin is sometimes someone has abused the snot out of one, expects the bowyer to take care of it and the bowyer who's already making very little on the bow has to come out of his pocket. Enough of those will shut down a bowyer just as fast as not standing behind a warranty for the "good" customers. As said, one bad apple can spoil it for everyone else.  

The good thing is word gets around, both about individuals who try to abuse a warranty and about bowyers who won't honor their warranty. The internet has made the traditional world a very small one when it comes to cons and crooks.  I guess it could happen, but I've never heard of a bowyer having financial  problems because they stood behind their products too well.  I can think of a couple that went under due to lousy products and/or lousy service though.

The only bowyer/company I have a close working relationship with is Chek-Mate, and although they have had a few folks here and there try to abuse their great service, it's never come close to shutting them down.  A bowyer that knows his stuff can usually tell what went wrong...and if there's any doubt, they are generally money ahead if they take care of it either way.  If there is no doubt, and the customer is just trying to yank your chain, well...you can tell them to take a hike.  In the case I mentioned I was there, and saw the first bow personally.  No scheme there, just a poorly made bow and no honoring the warranty.

CM doesn't have a bow that cost anywhere near $1,000 (as the one mentioned), they don't give any hassle over warranty work, and they have been going strong for 40+ years.  Must be something to it.  

[LBR]

cbCrow is right--right or wrong, ethical or not, if the bowyer says the warranty is only good for the original buyer, they have the right to refuse to fix it for the second owner--doesn't matter if it's six months or six days.  To me that's morally corrupt, but legal.  Like someone said, buyer beware.

[cbCrow]

I still can't help feeling that there is something we aren't aware of concerning previous owner or condition of this bow. I usually reserve judgement until all facts are in. I don't start talking morals or ethics until I can make a honest assessment of facts which are not being presented as of yet.  

[JC]

You are right again Crow...there's always two sides to every story.

[divecon10]

Appreciate the frustration Easyup. LBR has a point. Not every bow has been abused. Then again some are abused and have no issue. Ask a few relevant questions and u’ll generally get a few opinions. Opinions are like nether orifices, everyone has one! Regardless of the good intent in which this information is given there is nothing like real experience, which can be gleamed from many on Trad. I often throw a question at someone I perceive may have a clue on a subject or bow type. Most are quiet generous with their time, some don’t respond. Don’t take it personally as the ones who do can usually set u straight.
The reality is in most instances like this u’ll have to bite the bullet, if u want to avoid further pain do more research. The time spent getting sound info from willing wise can save u thousands. I received the following from a bowyer and think it relevant as one I got ended up being for me someone else’s shattered dream.
“A little perspective from a bowyers standpoint is that most consumers want the fastest prettiest bow. And there are enough fly by night bowyers out there that will promise the sun and the moon in order to get a sale expectations are unreal. The old bows of yesteryear shot 160 fps and where made out of black glass with a good maple core. New bows are made with some exotic wood and clear glass that has very little fiber in it in order to make it as clear as water. even though you try and put a finish on that is UV resistant you still have UV light breaking down the glues. Then the customer wants to use some new no stretch string with 6 strands just to gain another 3FPS that is a accident waiting to happen.”
When u do go new unless u have a real clue advice from the bowyer should be a major contributing factor in the choice. With regard to bowyers or anyone providing a good or service The regular denial of accountability if fault is found will eventually bring a them unstuck. Once u have a few people with similar issues the bad taste left inevitably transfers to word of mouth which will take effect of course in the long run. Little comfort for those caught along the way I know

[LBR]

Guess I'll ask the obvious question (or maybe I missed the answer already given?).  What was the reason given for not fixing the bow?  Because you weren't the original owner, because it showed signs of abuse, or?

I didn't mean to sound like I was passing judgement on this particular case--I don't know either party, or nearly enough about it to have an informed opinion.  I just know such things happen, based on first-hand experience.

My curiosity is also piqued.  Anyone know of a bowyer going out of business because they backed their warranty too well?  Just curious.

Chad

[Gator1]

I think this is a tricky subject, however, I have never gone wrong in business giving a customer the benefit of a doubt.

There are many bowyers out there now, and thank goodness for all the great sponsors on this website, there are many many people to choose to business with.  

I agree, there are two sides to every story, and that is true in many aspects of running a business.

Everyone one has to make choices.

Good Luck hope it works out.

[str8jct]

I had one come unglued and split a few weeks ago.  The bow was 14months old and I bought it 2nd hand when it was 5 months old.  I do have a bow from the same bowyer that I bought new from him a few years ago.  I called him and told the situation at the time the bow broke and asked if anything I did helped it happen so I wouldnt destroy my other bow.  He said it sounded like too much moisture content and asked if I wanted the same woods, length, and weight in a new one.  I told him I wouldnt be buying a new one, he said no need he was replacing the one that broke.  I reminded him this was the bow I bought used, he said "That don't matter, I made it and I stick behind my work, your getting a new bow"  I was surprised and very grateful.  Some people just understand business and customer service, some dont.

[easyup]

Good Friends,
For all the PMs and the above, I will tell you the bow came to me from a Trad Gang member who sells a lot of this bowyers bows (he obviously has the money to play with lots of this bowyers bows) and I very strongly would support his integrity.  The bowyer routinely posts here.  I got the bow in perfect condition three weeks after he bought it new.  The bow was still on the bowyers site for sale the day I received  it from our fellow member.  It shoots as well as any of my bows (Robertsons, Black Swans, others by this bowyer, etc.) and is smooth as silk (carbon).  It is macassar ebony which is cracking and I recognize can be prone to checking; however, this is a split that started in the lower riser just a few days ago and now has moved through the shelf and all the way up to the fade out in the upper portion of the riser which has me worried it is not repairable as it is a drying issue.  The bowyer is free to expect me to pay for repairs for a 6 month old bow, which I consider risky, but fully admit this approach may be dead wrong and a fine approach to the issue.  However, I am free to look for bowyers who factor in this kind of issue in their business model and honor materials issues.

[DesertDude]

What rubs me wrong is when a bow fails with the 1st, 2nd, 3rd owner because of a workmanship defect and the boyer knows about it and doesn't stand behind his mistake. I have seen it first hand and it's just wrong.

[LongStick64]

Sometimes I think the problems really start to surface when a certain bowyer starts off making bows in a easy to manage pace, makes an excellent product, we all jump in line putting pressure on him to complete his orders and either he rushes and misses on a couple or he expands his business with more help and the quality control goes out the window. It's a safer bet to stick with someone who has adapted his business to support his customers or limits his business to only what he can handle.

[JC]

Originally posted by LBR:
My curiosity is also piqued.  Anyone know of a bowyer going out of business because they backed their warranty too well?  Just curious.

Nope, most are smart enough to make a change before that happens. I know of three who became much more "selective" about who they sold to because their 100% warranties began to become financial burdens. These were issues associated with abuse/misuse, not craftsmanship or materials.

[Bob Morrison]

I'm Just wondering what part of original owner is so hard to understand??????? In most cases there is a reason why you buy used, It is cost...
I'm sure you were aware of the warranty or should have been when you bought the bow used and accept the responceablity for your new to you bow, and not try to push it of on the bowyer as his fault you have a problem.... Customer service is for customers, doesn't sound to me that you are a customer to this bowyer or he would have fixed your problem....

[easyup]

Bob, I understand perfectly and I did not check the warranty.  I, like many on this site, move through a lot of great bows because I like to work up a good arra, get it shooting as good as I can and move on, maybe wierd but I like it.  I started this message as bowyers can run their business anyway they want and that's fine with me.  I just wanted to know who will back their product for subsequent owners (me and the guys I pass bows on to) and from the number of PMs and posts I know their are other guys out there that pass through a lot of bows and are likewise interested in the "different" view of a warranty.  Thanks

[cbCrow]

Easyup,I feel for you and can understand your feelings, but I still feel you could have made an attempt to get in touch with the bowyer to find out his warranty policy before purchase. This thread brings up,to me, the subject of responsibility. If we buy used can we expect the bowyer to extend his warranty for us. How long? How many buyers? Who made the decision to buy, not the bowyer because I'm sure he would rather sell you a new bow, you did! When you buy from another individual you basically" plop down your money and take your chances".  

[jacobsladder]

The bow is 6 months old... assuming the riser is cracking due to faulty material (which seems to be the case) It would be a bad business move for a bowyer not to step in and take care of the problem. This would be a good step in gaining potential customers..or losing potential customers once the word got out that the problem wasnt taken care of.....anyone that steps thru your door should be a customer...whether they purchase or not...

[LBR]

Spot on JL.  I've had gobs of folks contact me, needing help or information on bows they didn't buy through me.  I've never refused to help, even though it cost me time, and sometimes money.  For one, I try to treat folks the way I'd like to be treated, and two, people remember good service.  It always pays me back in the long run.

There's been a few (very rare) occassions that I didn't help with other things--it was when it was obviously an attempted scam.  You can be courteous without being stupid.

It's a mix of technicalities vs. realities.  Technically, if a warranty is only good for the original purchaser, then technically the bowyer shouldn't be held responsible, regardless if it's his fault or not.  Technically, it would be the buyer's responsibility to find out up-front if the warranty was transferrable and/or if the bowyer would honor the warranty for any amount of time if the bow changed hands.

The reality is anyone expects a bow that is 6 months old to hold up.  The reality is if you pay top dollar (new or used), you expect top quality, including top service.  The reality is the bowyer can save some time and money up front by sticking strictly to the warranty, but loose much more in the long run.  The reality is word gets around, good or bad.  That is, again, if the problem could be due to materials or workmanship.

Just my opinion, based on several years of owning/operating a traditional archery based business.

[DesertDude]

Spot on Jacob, I saw it first hand, guy bought a bow that was a couple of months old. The bow blew up because the Boyer made a mistake when building it. This boyer knew there was a problem but because it was in the hands of a 2nd owner he didn't fix it. I Understand the warranty is for the first owner but this was the Boyers mistake (which he knew of) and no fault of the 2nd owner.

So what is the right thing to do in this case?
Only buy new?

[Bob Morrison]

Why Have a warranty at all if it means nothing????? How about being about to lower the price of the bow by $150 and have a 6 month (Not 7) warranty period? If it is workmanship or material it is going to blowup in that time frame. with the $150 maybe you could buy an extended warrantee. I get offeres all the time to extend my Truck.

[JC]

Originally posted by LBR:
The reality is anyone expects a bow that is 6 months old to hold up.  The reality is if you pay top dollar (new or used), you expect top quality, including top service.  The reality is the bowyer can save some time and money up front by sticking strictly to the warranty, but loose much more in the long run.  The reality is word gets around, good or bad.  That is, again, if the problem could be due to materials or workmanship.

The reality also is that sometimes customers abuse bows: shoot super light arrows, don't string them properly, hot car trunks, etc. etc. A cracked riser could be materials, and it could be because of prior abuse. It's a tough call to make...and again I wouldn't want to be a bowyer in today's economy with lots and lots of used bows floating around with who knows what done to them...6 months old or not.

And you are right Chad, word gets around....but a few disgruntled folks thankfully won't ruin the reputation of a very good bowyer that has many hundreds of satisfied customers in their corner. I don't know of a bowyer who is out of business because they didn't warranty every claim that came through...anyone?

I do know of multiple who don't build anymore (or at least don't sell on Tradgang) because they are flat out crooks, not because of a few customers who may have an axe to grind for one reason or another...but those guys don't last long outside their own little circles anyway. But that's another story.