Any bowyers honor second owner in warranty period?

[Bob Morrison]

Very well said Joe. I'm not sure of the mentality of anyone crying about the price of a bow being to high, getting a thread going maybe hoping to get the prices lowered????It Does work on some in the hobby,,, not the business. Some warrantee bows for a year may build 20 a year and pay nothing but materials,14 month no problem I don't have anything else to do anyway.Try taking you car in with 40K on it that has a 36K warrantee, Good Luck..
Shame on anyone that even thinks they are entitled to warranty work on a custom bow that was not built strictly for them.Like buying a pair of custom made boots on -bay wearing them for a week and decide they don't fit and call the builder and want him to change the size to fit you   Free.......... and them get a little nasty with him also, Good luck with your boots that fit the origional owner perfect....

[cbCrow]

To all of those out there who feel that the bowyer ought to honor his warrant to a 2nd or 3rd buyer irregardless I pose this question; if you bought a set of tires off your buddy who just wrecked his car but didnot hurt the tires and they are still under warranty, would you go to the dealer if you had a problem?

[DesertDude]

Originally posted by Bowbldr:
Try taking you car in with 40K on it that has a 36K warrantee, Good Luck..

So Bob, what if your "Car" only has 20K on it? It still under the Manufactures warranty? They Fix it.....The Bottom line is if a Boyer knows he made a mistake when building a bow/bows, and ships them with this flaw should he not fix them? He knows theres a problem, what should he do? Say nothing and hope nothing goes wrong? Only fix the ones that are still with the first owner? It was a manufacturing flaw, no ones fault but the boyer. In today's world it's called a "Recall".

[Ground Hunter]

Could we see a picture of said damage?  H

[jacobsladder]

Crow...if there was a manufacturer defect..the answer would be yes...if the tires were worn badly from my buddy not rotating..i'd give him some grief too..lol..

[Bob Morrison]

Most new cars have a transferable Warranty, Most bowyer do not. Bottom line is if your bowyer made a mistake and ships it to you anyway, you need a new bowyer. If he knows there is a problem you get it corrected before you ship anymore bows..... Manufactoring flaws should never leave the shop...What most don't know is wood, it can be perfect for 6 months and then develope a crack or grain lines show up. Most of the time doesn't hurt the strength of the bow, sometimes it might.and until it adjusts to your area, this can happen . And then you call your bowyer and he can sand and refinish.
Recalls would be for a bad batch of glue or glass, None of which rarely happens. A dry joint will not last past tillering in the shop.

[LBR]

if you bought a set of tires off your buddy who just wrecked his car but did not hurt the tires and they are still under warranty, would you go to the dealer if you had a problem?  

From a wreck?  Probably wouldn't buy them to begin with.  Now, if the buddy bought them, drove them a few hundred miles, then decided he just didn't like them, I would.  If the tread flew off before I had 1,000 miles on them, then yes--I'd be asking the dealer for replacements, and I think I'd get them.

I already said, if it was a case where there was no obvious abuse, I'd replace the bow.  I've done it.  I've helped people get bows replaced that didn't buy them through me to begin with.  Chek-Mate was the one that took the big hit--it didn't cost me much money, mostly time and phone calls--but they take care of their customers.

They do that not because they have to or are held to it by their warranty, just because they feel it's the right thing to do.

[DesertDude]

Thanks Bob for your input....

[Two Dogs]

Chad & Mark, amen brother. TD out.

[tradtusker]

interesting thread

[heydeerman]

I don't feel it's fair to expect a bowyer to honor a warranty that does not exist. Most bowyers clearly state that their warranty is for the original owner or buyer and if you bought it from the original you bought it without a warranty. Most will take care of problems with someone who is not the original owner and that is to their credit but it should not be expected.

[JC]

First, I don't think cars are a realistic analogy. Do you know how much profit a car maker makes on a car? They are a monstrous corporation, they build the warranty costs into every single unit...over hundreds of thousands of units. They also have residual and alternate income related to the sold vehicles that helps offset the warranty costs. We are also talking about a distinct difference in materials, production methods, technology etc. that play a huge role in the warranty process. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Since Chad mentioned Checkmate, Checkmate's warranty states 2 years...clear. They have no stipulations other than that...but there is still a stipulation. But that does not make them any more or less noble than any bowyer who clearly states his own terms. If I bought a used Checkmate 2nd hand (or more) and it failed in less than 2 years, I would EXPECT a new bow (or free repair) because of their warranty. But if another bowyer offered a 5 year warranty, I would be foolish to expect them to match it. They might for whatever reasons at the time but they certainly wouldn't do it every time for every customer or that would not have their 2 year stipulation. The problem is not with bowyers adhering to their clearly stated warranty but with some people who expect a bowyer to adhere to someone else's warranty.  If you don't like the stipulations of a bowyer's warranty, don't buy the bow. But if he clearly states his terms and sticks to them, he's no more or less moral than someone with different terms.

I'll also differentiate "customers" from those that simply buy bows 2nd hand (or 3rd,4th etc). Is a bowyer's customer the guy who originally ordered the bow or the guy who bought the bow from the guy who originally bought the bow? Where do you draw the line? Again, if a bowyer clearly states where he draws the line and adheres to it, there is no morality/amorality to the line he chooses. There are PLENTY of bowyers out there with stipulations on their warranties (show me one that doesn't) and they still have a backlog of customers and most a SERIOUS backlog of return customers. Obviously, there are much more important things to many customers than the warranty stipulations that are the minor differences between bowyers.

[dragon rider]

Originally posted by JC: Warranty is a warranty...and if the bowyer clearly says for original purchaser only, that's the warranty. No "play on words",

Absolutely right.The original owner has a contract with the bowyer; nobody else does.  Anything the bowyer chooses to do is a matter of his discretion.

I know of a number of bowyers who will go out of their way to help anyone who has one of their bows, but they do it because they're good people, not because the warranty, as above, requires them to.  

And, in my rarely humble opinion, there's nothing unfair, immoral, or even fattening, about announcing the rules by which the bowyer works in advance and then operating by them.  That's the essence of fairness - the rules are known in advance and everyone operates by them.  

But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

[LBR]

Actually the CM warranty is 2 years against defects in materials and/or workmanship, after that it's at the descretion of CM...technically it's for the original buyer, but I've never known of them sticking strictly to it if someone had a problem.

[DesertDude]

Very interesting post. And in the end I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one.

[L. E. Carroll]

Bottom line is... it was a "second hand" bow and Bowyer clearly states warranty is to "Origional Owner".

If you want to have a warranty "Buy New"....if your trying to save some $ by buying used, read the Bowyers warranty                    and then decide to "Buy or Not too Buy".  The choice is always the buyers, and he should be aware of the consequences should they arrive.    

Try  asking the guy your buying "used" from if he'll stand behind it for a given period of time.[ other than the breif inspection period most of us sellers or traders give]          

[JC]

Originally posted by LBR:
Actually the CM warranty is 2 years against defects in materials and/or workmanship, after that it's at the descretion of CM...technically it's for the original buyer, but I've never known of them sticking strictly to it if someone had a problem.

I certainly wouldn't expect them to stick to "it's for the original buyer" since the warranty on your page doesn't mention anything about that. If I had a mat/work problem before the 2 year mark and I was not the original owner, it would be expected for them to take care of it because of the stated warranty. I'm sure they do the same as all other good bowyers, adhere to their warranty as a minimum and everything else is at their discretion on a case by case basis.

Most all bowyers are willing to work with owners of used bows, but they shouldn't be expected to do it for free if their warranty says otherwise. And with the right approach and attitude, I've found what they charge for work on their bows outside of the warranty period is exceptionally fair.

[Bivyhunter]

Boy, there are a lot of different perspectives out there. I can see more than a few bowyers will probably be clarifing their warranties after following this thread.  If I sold a bow to a customer and they leant it to their buddy, he shot it and it broke, I'd still fix it.  If he sold it to his buddy, how much difference is there?  If it is still within the warranty period, I think the repair is "warranted". Those it sounds like the problem is within the wood (a natural product) and may be no fault of the bowyer, just bad luck, I think it'd be good business to make it right.  
   Tell you what Easyup, send me the bow, if I can't repair it (at no charge), I'll build you a Stalker Recurve out of similar wood for no charge.  Only problem, for you, is I don't build one piece bows, you'd have to suffer with a take down.  Oh, and I'd send you back the other as well.

[Bob Morrison]

You custom build a 54" bow for a man or woman max. draw 26", Lets his buddy 32" shoot the bow? and blows it up, your going to replace it free ???? Don't quit your day job. That thinking will put you out of the bow business.
   Truth is most bowyer that build bows for a living will work with 2nd and 3rd owners. Depending on there attitude when talking with the bowyer. Be a Demanding A$$, Warranty is the Warranty fix it yourself... Chances are Not being an A$$ and demanding you will get it fixed, not free but at a better price and sometimes shipping only..
   I've been building Custom bows for over 20 years now and plan on doing the same until the Lord tells me it time to go. I have many customers that will never have a problem getting there bows worked on, Way past there 2 year warranty, Not free. Most of my customers understand you have to charge to stay in business.

[elknutz]

Interesting thread.  I would never expect a bowyer to make a free repair on a bow I bought second hand, no matter how old it is.  I was not the bowyers customer.  I did nothing to compensate the bowyer for his time and craftsmanship. I buy used bows to save time and fit my budget.  I am accepting the risk and fully understand "let the buyer beware".  I do appreciate the responses from dealers on this issue. Tradgang is an amazing place with a bunch of amazing people.