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Author Topic: New 450+ String = Quieter String  (Read 1046 times)

Offline Jim Harris

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New 450+ String = Quieter String
« on: June 12, 2010, 06:14:00 PM »
I made an 8 strand DF 97 string with 6 strands of B50 padding the loops for my VyperKahn and it was a bit on the noisy side. I got some 450+ and made another string with 6 strands of 450+ and 8 strands of B50 padding the loops and it is much quieter.  
  Have you TGers had the same the same experience... or what is your favorite string material for the quietest strings.

Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 07:28:00 PM »
I have. My 450+ 6 strand strings are quieter, less handshock and faster. I love em.
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Offline JRY309

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2010, 08:26:00 PM »
I have found a padded loop 450+ is quieter on some of my bows then D97,but some bows are not.I find that some bows may like a different string.I changed to a padded loop 8125 on my Hill and it is quieter then D97 and 450+ on that bow.

Offline NomadArcher

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2010, 08:31:00 PM »
450+ is the best string I have used.

Offline Ron LaClair

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2010, 08:45:00 PM »
I've been touting the 450+ strings on here for years, now suddenly people are "discovering" it..    :)
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Offline Jim Harris

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2010, 01:42:00 AM »
Ron, the next bow I am going make a 450+ string for is my Super Shrew. I tried a DF 97 on it and it is very noisy. I had a topic in here a few weeks ago about strings for the Shrew and was advised by numerous people the 450+ was the one to use.
  I also noticed it didn't stretch much after shooting it on my VyperKahn. The brace only dropped a little bit.

Offline COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2010, 01:49:00 AM »
I am pretty new to all this.  Will 450+ work well on a recurve?
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Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2010, 08:01:00 AM »
It should be fine on a recurve also.

Ron I always thought you supplied 450+ on your Shrew bows. I know they were skinny strings. I had a thread on another Trad site about 450+. I was getting bashed until you stepped in and said you had advocated them for years. It was amazing how they all shut up after that.  

Jim I have heard a lot of good things about the Shrew and Griffin, I never heard of any being noisy. I used the 450+ on a bow that was very noisy and it helped me. I also use cat whiskers which seem to work the best for me on noisy bows. I was surprised how much different the bow felt with the string on after the shot as well.

Gil
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Offline Ron LaClair

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2010, 10:17:00 AM »
Quote
Ron I always thought you supplied 450+ on your Shrew bows. I know they were skinny strings.  
Yes the Shrew longbows and recurves both come with 450+ strings on them, I also have them in stock for those that need them. As of late we've been adding 2 strands of B-50 to the 6 strands of 450+ for an even quieter string without sacrificing performance.
We live in the present, we dream of the future, but we learn eternal truths from the past
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice.
Life is like a wet sponge, you gotta squeeze it until you get every drop it has to offer

Offline Jim Harris

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2010, 12:00:00 PM »
Gil, it was quiet with the string that came with it. Very quiet. I bought it used here on Trad Gang recently. I don't know what kind of string it had when I bought it. The string was getting kind of worn, so I made a padded loop DF 97 string and thats when it got noisy. At that point I bought some 450+ to try. I was pleasantly suprised how much quieter my VyperKahn was. I use cat whiskers on it. I am going to make one for the Shrew next.
  I was at a club shoot a few weeks ago right after I had the new 450+  string for the Habu. I told Bjorn about it. I believe, if I remember right that he said he has made some very quiet strings with 8125. I hav'nt tried that material.

Offline Northwest_Bowhunter

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2010, 12:14:00 PM »
Ron,
First I wanted to say I learned a lot from you on Masters of the Bare Bow 1.  Does your company make strings for longer bows then you make?  I have a 70" Hill style and would like to try one or two of those strings.
Michael

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Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2010, 12:23:00 PM »
I used to shoot 8125 10 strand padded loop stings. I liked the 450+ better. I think the speed was better on the 6 strand 450+ and it made the bow feel as though it had less handshock, plus being very quiet.

I don't remember my 8125 strings being loud, but I switched to 450+ for all my bows and haven't shot any other kind for a long time. At one time I did a lot shooting through a chrono and was very impressed with the added speed I got from the 6 strand 450+ string. Most of my bows are 60# and I recieved a big boost if I remember right.

I also made a padded loop endless 6 strand 450+ string and it was quiet and fast. I have found endless loop to generally be a little loud, but the 450+ wasn't.

Have fun
Gil
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Offline Shaun

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 12:41:00 PM »
Hmmmmm... Ron, are you saying you add 2 strands of B-50 to the actual string - not just the loops? In other words, is this an 8 strand string with 2 of them B-50 and the rest 450+?  

I have been tempted to mix string materials but have never taken the plunge.

Online frank bullitt

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 12:59:00 PM »
450+ is a great material. Dan Quillian endorsed it since its birth in the early 90's.

I picked up a sample in 93 at the trade show in Louisville and have shot it on my Bob Lee and Selfbows since.

Lot of good materials on the market. Different blends, just merchandising in my oppinion.

Shawn, alot of folks mix and match. If your making your own, give it a try.

Offline Ron LaClair

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 01:43:00 PM »
Quote
Hmmmmm... Ron, are you saying you add 2 strands of B-50 to the actual string - not just the loops? In other words, is this an 8 strand string with 2 of them B-50 and the rest 450+?  
Yes.
We live in the present, we dream of the future, but we learn eternal truths from the past
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice.
Life is like a wet sponge, you gotta squeeze it until you get every drop it has to offer

Offline Shaun

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 02:02:00 PM »
That's cool. I have been using TS1+ and will pick up some 450+ to experiment with. I like TS but find that the extreme small diameter makes it difficult to get a good nock fit with 8 strands even with thick halo serving. Thanks for the quick answer Ron.

Offline Running Buck

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 07:02:00 PM »
I had the same problem with 8125 being to thin in the serving area. I cut a thin strip of masking tape and wrap the string and serve over it. I haven't had a problem so far.

Offline Ron LaClair

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 08:39:00 PM »
Our strings are double served on the top half.
We live in the present, we dream of the future, but we learn eternal truths from the past
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice.
Life is like a wet sponge, you gotta squeeze it until you get every drop it has to offer

Offline Lee Robinson .

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2010, 10:13:00 PM »
I made MANY 450+ strings for Dan Quillian that he resold or put on his bows. I did a lot of testing with it myself and found dynaflight97 out performed it. On a FEW bows 450+ is quieter, but on most there isn't much difference. I personally would never mix materials. Even when I made Dan's strings, I didn't even use dacron in the loops. I used all 450+ and padded with 450+ only after having Dan approved it. I told him I was uncomfortable using dacron in the string because over time the tougher 450+ or dynaflight97 would still be doing all the work while the dacron is just a filler. He said that he only used Dacron in the loops instead of using the same materials because it was cheaper. The cost for a couple of feet of 450+ or dynaflight97 is neglegiable...cents.

I certainly wouldn't use dacron as a filler in the entire string. No offense to Ron, I respect his knowledge, but my experience tells me the dacron would stretch and the 450+ wouldn't...and in the end the dacron will at best do nothing that using all 450+ wouldn't do, and at worst will end up "looping around" the 450+ like a rope around a pole making for an asymmetrical string. It just isn't worth saving a few cents IMO. If you want 450+, use it without mixing it. If you want dynaflight, use that without mixing it. If you want dacron, use it without mixing it. I have made far too many strings to count and tested them far too much to disagree with my findings when comparing dacron, 450+, ff, and dynaflight.

Dacron is the slowest, then 450+, then ff, and dynaflight the fastest.

All are quiet on a quiet bow...but on a noisy bow dacron will be the quietest and ff will be the noisiest. 450+ is a tiny bit quieter than dynaflight, and dynaflight is quieter than ff.

Dacron resignates too much for me. I personally would never keep a bow that couldn't use a high performance string, even if that meant modifying the tips myself.

My favorite string to date of the materials listed above is a 3 ply 12 strand dynaflight97 string made from 3 bundles with 4 strands each...with the loops padded with an extra strand of dynaflight97 bringing the strand count in the loops up to a total of 15 strands...just requiring the addition of 1 strand per group. On a recurve, I might would pad with 2 additional strands per group, bringing the loop count up to a total of 18 strands of dynaflight. Serving only requires a few strands to be added between the bundles...mixed into the individual bundle groups by unstringing the bow and untwisting the bundles in the area of the string that the serving will lay over and then twisting this area back up so the "inlays" are smooth and the serving does not create a "bump" as adding it to the final string would do.

12 strands of dynaflight is quiet on all bows I would personally keep. If it won't shoot that quietly, I personally wouldn't keep the bow unless it was only for target shooting...but that's me. It is also the fastest I have tested while maintaining stability. I personally believe that when one goes to the extremely light weight strings, one starts to get less consistency in performance. Consistency = accuracy.
Until next time...good shooting,
Lee

Offline Ron LaClair

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Re: New 450+ String = Quieter String
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2010, 11:58:00 PM »
The strings we use on the Shrew bows are the best for OUR bows...if they weren't we wouldn't be using them. Over the many years that the Shrews have been made we've tried/tested every other kind of string material available. D97 is a close 2nd but for my money the 450+ can't be beat on our bows.

There are many bows being made today and I don't care how similar some of them are in appearance they are NOT the same. They do not they FEEL the same nor do they SOUND the same... even if they may have the same string on them.

Many of the bows today are using carbon and foam in the limb, our bows included. This can bump up performance in a bow but can also cause a little more noise.

We want a hunting bow to be fast and stable but it also needs to be as quiet as possible

The 2 strands of B-50 we've been using in our 450+ strings serve as a "damper" and tends to quiet the string, almost like a built in string silencer. The 450+ supports the B-50 and keeps the dacron from stretching which is what dacron wants to do. If performance is minimized by adding the 2 strands of B-50 in the strings it is not noticeable.

We've been using this "blend" in our strings for some time now with nothing but positive results.

I'm not saying that this is what everyone should be using on other bows, but it works for our bows and we will continue to use it until something better comes along.
We live in the present, we dream of the future, but we learn eternal truths from the past
When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice.
Life is like a wet sponge, you gotta squeeze it until you get every drop it has to offer

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