Endless vs Flemish for Traditional Bows

[Jmgcurve]

Flemish because that is what I started with and know how to make.

[JEFF B]

my bow came with a flemish so thats what i shoot if it came with an endless thats what i would shoot. it dont make any dif to me or the bow as they do the same job. just my two cants worth

[PowDuck]

I've never shot an endless on a trad bow. The flemish looks more traditional and that's what Chad makes.

By the way, I need to get a couple made pretty soon. Hey, Chad ......

[eric-thor]

well i think the jurry has a verdict : endless loop strings are for girls ....


lol jk  

[BCWV]

I like flemish because they are easier for me to make. My jig is much smaller and takes up less room and I can twist up a flemish quicker than I can make an endless.
 But I guess I just like the looks of a flemish better.

[30coupe]

Originally posted by robtattoo:
There's no option for 'Don't Care'

I trully don't care, one way or t'other. There's no difference I can see/feel/hear between endless or flemish. They both work for either longbow or recurve.

I agree with Rob. I like both, but my old, arthritic hands like making endless ones better! I've built jigs for making both and can make either, but I seem to do mostly endless of late...not because they are better, but because making them is easier on my hands.

[Rob DiStefano]

properly made, neither string type is superior to the other.

i prefer endless only because replicating string length is far easier than flemish.

other than that ....    

[Charlie Lamb]

only the cool guys shoot endless. Anybody can get a flemish string.
   :D

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
only the cool guys shoot endless. Anybody can get a flemish string.
    :D  

good point, charlie!        

[30coupe]

Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
only the cool guys shoot endless. Anybody can get a flemish string.
    :D  

 
   :rolleyes:
   

[eric-thor]

lmao      

[Shakes.602]

Well, I guess I got my Answer!!     Thanks Guys for Participating in my Poll!!          

[Red Tailed Hawk]

Agree with James Wrenn, Flemish because I know how to make them.

[eric-thor]

i can go to bass pro and get a endless loop for the kids and wife ... but i get all my strings from flemish twist men . they only make strings for men.          

[Lee Robinson .]

I prefer flemish. It is quieter, and if made properly it is just as consistent as an endless. The problem with flemish is most string makers don't know how to properly make one that comes our round as it should be. Too many look like 2 or 3 ropes wrapped around one another because they don't properly countertwist the individual bundles prior to flemishing the groups together.

Made right, the flemish is not only just as consistent, but it is also stronger than an endless.

[Brock]

I prefer flemish twist...from a good string maker...got to use wax and lay them in right.  Then got to take care of it with regular waxing...

keep em sharp

ron herman

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Lee Dogman:
... Made right, the flemish is not only just as consistent, but it is also stronger than an endless.

not true ... both string types of equal string fiber and strand count will have the same breaking strength.  since endless has served string loops, those can be far more durable than flemish.


the following excerpt is by tim baker, taken from the bowyers bible, volume II ...

"Many archers and writers of the past and present have assumed the loop of an endless string is weaker than the string itself.  the following argument is presented:

The loop is only half as thick as the main string, therefore only half as strong.  For the loop to have sufficient strength, string thickness has to be doubled, doubling the entire string's mass in the process.

This seems to make perfect sense, and if my engineer friend, Dick Baugh, hadn't set me straight on the matter, the above argument might have stood.  Many a fight, by the way, has been started down at The Bowmaker's Bar over just this subject.

It's easy to prove that an endless string's half thickness loop is as strong as it's full thickness body: Determine the strength of a strand of string.  Loop it over a smooth hook of a pull scale, two strands hanging down.  Pull on both strands, noting the scale weight at the breaking point.

This seems unfair, two strands against the loop's single strand, but the single strand will hold it's own.  Breaking strength will be double that of a single strand broken in a straight pull.  Almost!  Minor abrasion takes place where the loop meets the nock, and bunching/crushing pressures lower loop strength just slightly.  This requires loops to be slightly thickened, by thickening the whole string.  A soft serving should be used to cushion the loop."

note:  hindsight shows that the sentence 'this requires loops to be slightly thickened, by thickening the whole string' should have been amended to 'this requires the loops to be slightly thickened, by padding the loops with a few extra strands'.

[Rob DiStefano]

  the bottom line is, do NOT think that endless spun bowstrings are inferior to flemish twist bowstrings.  

if one digs in a bit, one will find there are many things about endless strings that are - IN SOME WAYS - better than flemish.  

a bold statement?  not really, not for anyone who's been spinning and twisting strings for over 50 years.  

this is NOT to say that endless is "better" than flemish - that would be dumb.  but there are things about each string type that bear understanding, and evaluating.  

it's important to note that either string type is more than capable of getting the trad bowhunting job done - there are no advantages to either in that scenario.

ymmv, but it shouldn't if ya know the facts.

[Bill Carlsen]

I used to shoot competitively and made my own endless strings. I double served the loop ends with a thin nylon thread which made the loops lighter and gave me a slight gain in speed. Endless strings are very consistent if you make them well and if you are a good enough archer you can tell a difference. My biggest problem with flemish strings is that they really stretch a lot before they "bottom out". A well made string is as important as a well made arrow, IMO, and for accuracy issues I believe the endless has the edge...at least in my experience. However, I tend to use flemish because  I can make them easily and in hunting situations and distances the differences, for me, are nil. If I were shooting competitively I would be shooting lighter weight bows with endless strings made by me with about ten twists in them.

[Lee Robinson .]

Rob,

When the number of strands in the string are equal, a flemish has at least twice as many strands in the loops and is therefore stronger than an endless string.

Even if no "padding" was added in a flemish a 10 strand string would have 20 strands in the loops while an endless string would only have 10 strands in the loops.

I have ran chain through cast iron weights and attached the weights to a string by using "S" hooks. Doing "weight drop" tests to simulate the shooting an extremely heavy bow, I found that the flemish string held up better. Endless strings almost always break in the loops where the hooks attach to the loop and broke before the flemish strings.

I did this about 10 years ago and I don't remember at what point the strings failed, but if you want to know the particulars, I am willing to repeat the tests and report the exact findings. I don't remember what material I did this with either. I don't think there would be much difference in dacron strings since one doesn't typically pad the loops on a dacron string, but I would still favor the flemish just because of the higher loop count in the loops. I suspect I used dynaflight97 in my tests since it is my favorite material, and if that is so I suspect my flemish loops had more than double the loop count since I pad loops and would have most likely tested the products in the manner that I would use them. If that was the case, then admittedly my flemish strings had MORE THAN double the string count in the loops due to the loops being padded, but I don't believe that is cheating because that is also how I make them for bows as well. What I do remember is the flemish held up better and that part stuck in my mind.

When I make a flemish dynaflight of 9 or 12 strands, the loops have splices added to them to bring up the loop count to 30 strands. A flemish 30 strand loops is CERTAINLY stronger than a 9 or 12 strand endless.

Again, I am talking about when two strings are made properly.

Again, the biggest problem with flemish is finding someone that knows how to make them properly by

1. counter-twisting the individual bundles after
2. adding loop padding, but before
3. flemishing the groups together so one ends up with
4. a round finished product that doesn't look like 2 or 3 ropes wrapped around one another.

I of course do this in every string I make, and I  believe Chad (LBR) does it properly as well as we have met and discussed string making, but far too many string makers do NOT do this properly.