Need some input....Youth Bowfishing(***updated with more new pix***)

[Guru]

As some of you know, my son Cade has started bowfishing with me this summer...

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He's having a ball, and is shooting pretty well, hitting several fish already. The problem is he's shooting very marginal equipment and is having a hard time getting the arrow far enough into a fish to get the barbs to hold.

So I'm looking ideas to optimize penetration.

The Muzzy heads we use are great heads, but even with a brand new "Trocar Tip", the barb hasn't made it in yet.

I've since found another old, different kind of bowfishing tip that may work better with some modification.

I've also been working on a couple ideas that I've had.

Here's one of them...

Driveway marker from Home Depo...on that I tapered the nock end and glued a nock and installed a slide stopper....
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Then I took a screw-in wood adapter and glued and pinned it in place(11/32 taper didn't fit real well on the 5/16 arrow, but I got it work). Then mounted an old Bear razorhead on a 100 gr. steel adapter. Everything mounted spins about perfect...
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Not a perfect solution, but it should penetrate way better. My hope is that if he does get this thru a fish, the slit won't line up(hopefully) with the barbed ends and he might land his fish.

With the screw-in adapter, just unscrew the point to take the fish off, the screw back on.


My buddy "Glenbo" was been busy in shop as well with some arrows, bh's, and a welder              
 
All ideas,input and experiences are appreciated guys...we need help!

[recurvecody]

in ny is it legal to bowfish with a four barb tip? i'm wondering if you add a carp tip barb to that setup if that would help. another thing i was kinda thinking about was that if he was shooting a 3ft arrow like you normally do, what if cut his arrow down he might get more speed out of it. don't know if that would work but its just a thought.

[owlbait]

Curt, one thing I've found that makes a difference is how far the point has to get in before the barbs hold. Thats one reason I like the Muzzy Shureshot point. It has the shortest point to barb distance. Something to consider. That broadhead modification looks great, but it looks more likely to cause an accident on a slippery/chaotic boat deck, especially with a little guy around.

[woodchucker]

Curt, Could you possibly put the Muzzy point to a grinder,and make a flat "spear" point as opposed to the "diamond" tip???

Just a thought..... Good Luck!!!!!

[imskippy]

Nice mod. on that setup. I'm curious why the driveway marker? What about grinding the muzzy point and shortening the barbs some. I think you're on the right track with the cut on contact idea though. Skippy

[Charlie Lamb]

That's exactly what I used for my boy's bowfishing arrows. The only real difference is that I made the barbs a little more "pointy"... that way they snag on stuff and won't come out very easy at all.

He'll get in past the barbs with that set up.
   

[Running Buck]

I had the same problem with my son when he was small. One problem I came across is when you modify a broadhead they come out of the carp as well as they go in. Steel force has a head that looks something like a four blade criscrossed broadhead that might work with lower poundage.I don't know how these heads hold up to a rocky bottom.
RB

[Todweelz]

Curt, my girls have beem bowfishing with me alot this year, they are shooting a bear tigercat 35@28, they are only pulling it 23-24"  so maybe 26#s, they are using a glass fish arrow cut to 25", with a modified talon tip [ kustom king ], I cut off half the barb [ barb lays flat against arrow ], and got the screw-in tip as sharp as I could. They have lost a few and missed alot, but both have landed fish this way, about 2-3" of penetration, fish have to be close and shallow, but worth a try. Todd

[Paul Mattson]

Great idea but, I have to agree with owlbait.  Having that sharp of a head in a slippery boat is an accident waiting to happen.

[ChuckC]

Guru
I think Kustom King still has some of the fish points I like (talon).  

They have a single heavy wire prong and it is loose so it folds back until it passes thru a fish .  The prong is very long and will likely hold a whale, but I think cutting it back a bit , maybe even in half, would work even better for Cade.  If nothing else, take a look at the design, I like it myself.
ChuckC

[K. Mogensen]

I use Muzzy Carp heads when I fish. I'm using a 45# bow and had problems last year holding fish. I took some pliers though, and shaped the barbs a little differently. I squeezed them closer to the shaft, and then flared the ends just a bit until the point looked similar to an innerloc point. Now I get pass throughs to the other side all the time.

One thing too, I use Muzzy's 6 sided carp tips instead of the Trocar things.

[Guru]

Owl, Yes we'd surely have to be extra careful with that point.

 "distance from point to barb"....that's exactly why I went to Gander MT. saturday before we left to find  the shortest possible. Muzzy was the best for that.

Chuck, I've been doing that as well with some other points I have. Havn't tried the Muzzy tip yet though.

I'll post some pix of what I've messed with so far...

Skippy, I didn't have anymore fish arrows that didn't already have pinned points that I wanted to take apart.  The driveway markers make perfect fish arrows.

Thanx Charlie, When you said something about mod'd bh's on the thread a light bulb went off.
I'll sharpen the back to a point...

RB, I saw that Steelforce head in 3 Rivers yesterday. Looks great,but wonder about the 4 blades. Might hinder the penetration, but I was thinking about ordering one to try.Yeah, I know on a rocky bottom, it would get tore up quick. This would probably only used in a situation like we were the other night....mostly a muddy bottom.

Todd, That's exactly the advice experience I need!

I've been hesitant to cut his arrows short figuring that the weight might help. But I guess there's a trade off between a little extra speed.
Arrow should be more than heavy enough at 25", and it would certainly be easier for him to handle at the shorter length...I'll try it.

I have another Bear razorhead that I haven't touched yet.

[Guru]

Chuck, I'm gonna go check out those Talon heads right now.....

[Guru]

Ok, just to thinking about the "safety" of the sharpened head.....

How about if I only left the first 1/2" or so sharp, than ground down the edge behind the leading sharp edge so it's just a bit wider, say 3/4". Basically making the blade behind into barbs.

The leading edge should cut just enough for the prongs to pop right thru.

Gotta try it and see what I come up with....

Thanks guy, keep the ideas coming...he's/we're determined to land a fish!

[owlbait]

I was gonna suggest the shortened arrows too! What about the Mzzy's trocar Gar point? I think it is slimmer and made for better penetration on the tuff scales on gar. Might help just a bit. Good luck!

[LoweBow]

when using Muzzy quick release style heads it is very important to squeeze the barb tight w/ the head for better penetration.  The barbs get their holding power when then slip sideways and not from the ends of the barbs.  Helps w/ tare-outs as well.

[imskippy]

What if you bend the back of the blades a bit so it will cause the head to rotate as it goes through. May help prevent it pulling ou t the same hole.

[ChuckC]

You know,   we look to the solids for weight, which is good for deep water penetration, but for shallow stuff, it is not nearly as needed.

As you said Guru, with lite bows there is a trade off.  You need to have an arrow that can be launched.

Have you got any old, short heavy gauge carbon or glass shafts around that you can make into a servicable arrow for his "stalking".  It appears that is the norm for your area. .  make some that work for that purpose so he can win a few.  No they are not as sturdy, but then again, maybe they do not need to be.  

This is likely a great idea for a niche entrepreneur to develop a solid 1/4 " shaft or a very sturdy but not solid 5/16 that is lighter and smaller.  And also maybe a slightly smaller head. .  just for the kids.  Rememeber, that head is not gonna need to hold up to an 80 pound bow jamming it against the rocks,  only a 20 - 35 pounder.  That is a TON diffrerent.

I bet a lot of folks would purchase a decent smaller arrow so their kids can join them and still have a great time.

Guru..  Using that Talon head. .  can you grind those points a but to make them more stream lined.  Also.  The Talon USED to be made with a longer narrow point that is not a replaceable screw tip.  I think it would be much better to tinker with.  See if Kustom king still has any of those.
ChuckC

[ChuckC]

Guru
An example from the net.  kitebuilder.com has shafts of solid or tubular fiberglass or graphite in various diameters including all around 1/4" size.  You can purchase them at 24", 48" or 96",  They are not very expensive.  Don't know about shipping.  I wonder how an old Beeman hunter outsert adapter on the end of one of them and a Beeman outsert nock on the other end would fare.  Heck  the outsert nock, if a heavy version (I may have a few I could send you ) could itself act as the rear piece for the slide tie system.  You may have to make a slider.  How tough is it to make a half dozen of those if you have access to a drill press ?  Then take a 175 grain or more screw in field point and doctor it up to fill the bill.   Maybe grind the sides a bit to make it penetrate better (just two sides) and drill a small hole thru it near its base, add a piece of very stiff wire in a manner as similar to the Talon as you can figure.  He may have a useable arrow / system there for wade fishing at least.   Now I am gonna go try to make one.

Try it
ChuckC

[Stone Knife]

Curt, I ran into the same problem with Joe when he first started, he would not get the penetration. All we had were scales and pullouts, that homemade point will work but time will be your best bet, when Cade gets some more size he will pull more pounds then the carp better look out.