Drawing a line in the Sand??

[String Cutter]

Do you guys think we should draw a line in the sand and spell out exactly what Traditional Archery and the equipment used should be???
I know at this site that only traditional archery is allowed. But what is the def. of traditional archery. lighted knocks?, carbon arrows?, mech.BH ect.??
With most of our new comers coming from compounds I am just afraid that we will sooner or later end up just like the muzzle loader guys. With electric discharger and rifles that shoot just as well or better in some cases as center fired rifles with high powered scopes.That ain't muzzle loading??..
I believe that a line should be drawn.....If not??? What will Traditional Archery look like 25 yrs from now??? 50 yrs from now??? I think that our past will be watered down to the point nobody will know what it was really like?? Look at what we have already lost?? The old timers can tell you .... but they ain't going to be around for ever to tell someone..

[James on laptop]

You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.  :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.  

[John3]

Excluding is a slippery slope, no doubt.  Stand for something and not against everything.  Be an example for others when bowhunting and 3D shooting your traditional gear.  The market will dictate what happens.

[s_mcflurry]

That's tough.  Traditional is mostly mentality and partly equipment, I think.   I agree with James, it's what you feel it should be.  It's also going to change a lot based on what's available.  For a while traditional meant 100% wood (bow and arrows) because carbon wasn't an option.  Some still hold that opinion today.  But I shoot a custom bow and carbon arrows and I would fight tooth and nail and say I'm shooting traditional.  I think most would agree that, as a bare minimum, traditional equipment can be defined as a sightless, non-wheelie bow...any other criteria is up for grabs.

It's one of those things you can feel in your bones but can't really define.

[String Cutter]

James I totally (respectfully) disagree. We all like to think that we are all doing what they were doing back in the 40's , 50's, 60's , and even 70's. But we are not . As a race we always gravitate towards what is easier. Or in our minds works better. So we replace things alittle at a time until what we started with looks  and has a differant feel about it years down the road.
Just as an example. Our arrows. I think we all know we started out with wooden shafts. then we excepted the alum. ..... all the way up to the presant day super light , super stiff arrows with very small dia. ..What will we except next??? I think everytime we except the new and toss away the old we move farther from the past... Of what traditional Archeryu truely is.
What kinda arrows will they be shooting 50 yrs from now??? If we could look into the future would we agree that it is still traditional archery or has it changed and twisted into something else... a victome of political correctness.
As for it not being a team sport I do see us all as a kind of brother hood . With common ethics and likes and loves... Would a large group  of healthy guys really be welcome to ATAR shooting compounds?? I myself would feel like they were out of place...

[James on laptop]

All I am saying is you draw your own line about some thinks.Not matter what your perfect idea of defining traditional archery is there will be those that will agree with you and many others with a different idea.You can tell others how to think about such things.  

You can put rules in place at events like ATAR that limit who attends so yes if carrying a compound you would soon see you were out of place there.Funny but even those guys in there minds would be just as traditional as you and have many of the same values if there choice in bows did not make them outcasts.    

You can dictake rules,have laws changed ect but you simply can't say "traditional" is this because it is not the same for everyone.This stuff is just too personal to draw lines for anyone but yourself unless like your example of ATAR it is just ment to exclude others. jmho

Traditional bows to me are those that are not compounds.That is my idea of where the line lays and as far as I need to go with a definition.  

[SteveB]

I shoot and hunt with a recurve - metal riser, rest, and carbon arrows for the most post. If someone thinks they are hurting my feelings by not allowing me in their "traditional" mindset/group, I chuckle and never miss them.

[String Cutter]

James I agree with you to a point.
 But I just know years and years from now long after we have past ... There will be a group traditional bowhunters setting around camp. And One will say " I heard that they use to shoot wooden arrows. Even saw one once in a book."
 Then there will be some kinda bet on it????

[James on laptop]

Dang,sorry about all my typos.The battery in this keyboard is about gone.  :(  

I love metal risered recurves.Carbon arrows is the best thing that ever happened to a bowhunter.Simmons is the best broadhead design ever made.Longbows only come in one piece and two piece bows.If it is a 3 piece it is really just a recurve.Osage is the best bow wood.B-50 is only good for sewing.Just some of the lines drawn in my mind.  :D  

Of course while I am typing this I am working at straightening out some shoot arrows from a rose bush I pruned last week.Going to shoot them from a osage sliver I turned into a bow of sorts.Might use a simmons on them and the bow will have a 6 strand d-97 string on it.Got some turkey wings in the freezer for when I need feathers.

You see why it would be hard for me to draw a line for someone else?I am the same and don't change the way I feel, act or think if I am shooting my metal risered bows with carbon arrows and lighted nocks or trying to get the kinks out of these shoots.How can I define any of this for someone else.  

[Night Wing]

Short and to the point: No

[Arwin]

No matter how traditional we think we are, these people have us beat hands down.    :cool:    They have generations of family members who have been hunting this way longer than I know of. I imagine there are no lines in the sand with these people, only food on the table.    


   

   

   

[Breakfast Boy]

I've been shooting trad bows since '95.  A LOT has changed since then, that's for sure.  For example, if a guy said he was shooting carbon arrows, he was tarred and feathered!  LOL!

[Guru]

Originally posted by James on laptop:
You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.   :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.    

Well said James....  

[James Wrenn]

James I agree with you to a point.
But I just know years and years from now long after we have past ... There will be a group traditional bowhunters setting around camp. And One will say " I heard that they use to shoot wooden arrows. Even saw one once in a book."
Then there will be some kinda bet on it????
 

Well there is one sure way to stop that from happening and you don't have to draw lines.You just make a line of your own to keep the fires burning when you are gone.    Maybe someone from your line will be at that camp fire to win the bet. There is only one sure way for traditional values to survive.The same as it always has.  

   

[bawana bowman]

I agree with Arwin, when it comes down to it traditional will always be as it always has been.
A stick and string, with wood or reed arrows. Has been this way from the start and will still be that way in the end no matter what happens in between.

The only thing that will be different is those that choose to do things the easy way in between will have to relearn to shoot an actual bow if they want meat to eat. This is assuming that civilization as we know it comes to an end and man is forced to learn to live without mass production and other by products of civilization.

In this case a large portion of the population will perish because of the modern lazyman, do it the easy way, Govt take care of me, I'm for change mindset.

I see this as a good thing for the rest of us!    

[Breakfast Boy]

I agree one needs to draw their own line in the sand and what's traditional to one fella won't be to the next, but I understand what String Cutter is saying.  Lighted nocks being shot from a traditional bow makes me wanna cringe (just my opinion).  But so did carbon arrows ten years ago.  Guess I learned to accept them.  All I know is that I'm starting to make my own cedar arrows again, after seven years of shooting aluminum.  Sure do like the smell of cedar!  And there will be no cap wraps or fletching tape on 'em either.  Glue and paint baby, glue and paint.

Like I said, one man's traditional won't meet the next guy's criteria.  To me, I think a guy's sense of ethics and morals should be more traditional than his equipment.  Some of my best friends shoot compounds and I would rather hunt with them than some of the fellas I know that shoot traditional.

[joebuck]

Traditional Archery is about equipment. It changes over time.  1860's 1920's 1950's 1990's 2010's. I think the line in the sand moves periodically. That line is pushed by inventions/improvements for $$.


I'd rather hold my values as a Traditional Bowhunter than Traditional Archer. Those values should never change.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Originally posted by James on laptop:
You draw your own line every time you make a choice on your equipment and how you use it.Archery and bowhunting is not a team sport so you don't need to try and draw lines for others.   :D  

Traditional archery will always be exactly as you want it to be.It will never be lost or changed in any way unless you change it yourself.When things get change it is always because someone wants to change someone else ideas instead of honoring there own.    

Very well said. The only guys that are really worried about this stuff are the target shooters.
We'll always have some guys around that make their own wood bows and cane arrows. The history is there and the best part of bowhunting is; you can make it as hard or as easy as YOU choose.
Labels be damned.

[Bill Carlsen]

Guys like Pearson, HIll and Bear were always trying to improve on their equipment...making bows faster and more accurate, using aluminum and fibergalss arrow, developing better braodheads.They even used phenolic and metal in their risers and developed take down bows. I think if you draw a line in the sand it would be a mistake and our small numbers would shrink even more. Who really needs another arguement about what traditional is or isn't. As long as you are shooting a bow without wheels, eccentrics, etc. then it is traditional to me. I don't even mind shooting with compound guys/gals as long as they are good people and ethical. I choose my equipment because it makes me a better shooter and the only line I draw is that I will shoot a recurve and on occaision a longbow. If it is made with super modern materials. so what? Like I said, Pearson, Bear, Groves, Lee and other were always trying to improve their bows. A few years ago I hurt my left eye....almost lost it. I have played around with the idea of a fixed sight but if I shoot enough I am usually good to go. But the idea keeps coming back to "haunt" me. If I decided to put a sight on my bow and it made a significant difference in my ability to kill an animal would I be less traditioal or just adapting to my injury?
Where would you draw the line? Probably not where I would.

[KHALVERSON]

right on joebuck