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Author Topic: Drawing a line in the Sand??  (Read 1315 times)

Offline Mudd

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2010, 08:30:00 AM »
I think I've personally been from one end of the spectrum to the other. The difference is that I've not lost a thing by finding out what I like or dislike about all aspects of "my" traditional or "my" (not so much) bows and accessories.

Apparently "traditional" isn't defined by time but more by mind. The simplicity of archery can be defined by your attitude and approach.

I know for a fact that I felt as authentic as I could ever feel with my "Urban Survival bow" made by my own hands. I  set out to prove to myself that I could make a bow that I could kill stuff with even if faced with nothing to build a bow from other than what I could pick up in Westlakes Hardware. Two oak dowels, a section of pvc pipe and I had a longbow that I used to take game using it and some ramin wood arrows, also from Westlakes.

I knew Geronimo couldn't have done any better..lol He was a traditionalist too you know..lol

The real trick is that I never gave up anything. I still have all kinds of bows and all kinds of arrows.... I know the differences between them all plus the things that I love and hate about all of them.

Have a blessed day and try to save the baby when you throw out the bath water..lol

Remember nothing is lost by what you try, only what you fail to try or forget! IMHO

God bless,Mudd
Trying to make a difference
Psalm 37:4
Roy L "Mudd" Williams
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Archery isn't something I do, it's who I am!
The road to "Sherwood" makes for an awesome journey.

Offline Bill Carlsen

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2010, 08:43:00 AM »
I just reread your original post. I consider myself an old timer. All I can say is that because of imporvements in design and materialas I am still in the game at 66 and my wife can hunt with me with her DAS recurve because of the improved performance she gets from it. She doesn't need a compound to hunt with. And, as an old timer I can tell you that things were not always as good as we remember them being. The biggest change, sadly, has been in attitudes regarding equipment. Back in the day when someone came up with a new idea that made improvements in shooting no one said it wasn't traditional or unfair. Most of us tried new things, held on to the ones that worked for us and shot right alongside the others who adopted the new ideas. Because compound bows and inline muzzle loaders have evolved into what they are does not mean that recurves and longbows will become something different. If they become better because of research, new materials, etc. we all stand to gain.

And, again, as an oldtimer, some of the modern advances make it possible for those that need them to stay in the game, as I have already indicated. I am not at all interested in someone else, even if they call themselves "traditional" trying to limit my choices by offering up a definition of what I should or should not be shooting. My fish and game dept. sets the rules for the weapons I can hunt with and I abide by them but always with the recurve as my choice of weapons. It matters little what your bow and arrows are made of. When you draw back the string and release the arrow it is joyful and when I do that I am not at all thinking about what my equipment is made of or looks like. It is still what I know and what I can do that gets that arrow where I want it to go.
The best things in life....aren't things!

Offline Mojostick

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2010, 08:58:00 AM »
Assuming one is caucasian, if they want to go to the 20th century American roots, then their attire should often consist of a starched white buttondown shirt, silk tie and a smart fitted jacket, wool slacks and well oiled Russell boots and proper hat. Handkerchief tucked into suit jacket pocket is optional.

If one wishes to wear a wool Mackinaw, the original coats came only in blue. Plaid Mackinaw coats only came after the blue dye ran in short supply.
 
Of course, if one wishes to be a little more trad, they can reach back to the 18th century...

Eighteenth Century Revival

At the end of the eighteenth century archery became popular amongst the English gentry thanks to a fashion for the gothic, curious and medieval. Encouraged by Royal patronage and, later, the popularity of the work of Sir Walter Scott, archery societies were set up across the country, each with its own strict entry criteria, outlandish costumes and extravagant balls. The clubs were ‘the drawing rooms of the great country houses placed outside’ and thus came to play an important role in the social networks of local elites. As well as its emphasis on display and status, the sport was notable for its popularity with females. Young women could not only compete in the contests but retain and show off their ‘feminine forms’ whilst doing so. Thus archery came to act as a forum for introductions, flirtation and romance.

I hope everyone understands the point of the above. Defining beauty, explaining humor or religion is just as futile as defining traditional archery/hunting in a concrete way that everyone agree's upon.

Offline hayslope

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2010, 09:21:00 AM »
I try not to cringe when I see these posts related to "what is...or what is not.....traditional".   :readit:  


Really guys......what's next......a "line in the sand" drawn between longbow shooters and recurve shooters?


You do what you do and use what you use.....hopefully because it pleases you and it's what you enjoy.     :readit:

OK enough    :deadhorse:

BTW....I fall in to the "B-50" crowd......I would never want to be caught associating with that D-97 crowd!    :nono:
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“Only after the last tree has been cut down…the last river has been poisoned…the last fish caught, only then will you find that money cannot be eaten." - Cree Indian Prophesy

Offline Bonebuster

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2010, 09:27:00 AM »
There is no doubt that equipment improvements have been made.

The new materials I make strings from do not stretch anywhere near what they used to. I can send a carbon arrow careening through the trees, slapping and crashing it`s way to a stop, and NOT be surprised when I find it unharmed. My climbing treestand is as comfortable as a chair in my living room, and safety is vastly improved.
Through THIS internet forum, I have learned alot, saving possibly YEARS of trial and error.
Shooting and tuning skills, greatly improved.

I don`t look at these improvements as making things easier...just better. Carbon arrows alone make things better because they save me money with their durability. Translation...BETTER!

I`m not worried about our past being "watered down". It is alive and well. Everyday life is more challenging than ever, and in spite of this, people are making sure this "traditional" thing is remaining well taken care of.

Offline joekeith

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2010, 09:29:00 AM »
"Lines.....we don't need no stinkin' lines".....  :archer2:

Offline Lee Robinson .

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2010, 09:58:00 AM »
It isn't like compound bows with draw locks don't already exist. People choose traditional for it simplicity. How complex that simplicity becomes is up to the individual. The only place for "rules" to seperate one group of archers from another IMO is competition...and I believe that should be done with the following groups...

For "regular 3D" shoots...

1. Compounds "Open class" - anything goes except draw locks...as a bow should be drawn at the stake as is done in the field.

2. Compound "Hunter class" with limits on types of sights and stabilizers suitable for hunting. I don't know enough about such to define such classes. No draw locks.

3. Traditional "Open class" - olympic types of "traditional" bows w/ stabilizers or whatever else type of gadget one wishes to use. Perhaps a class with and another class without sights. (LBs or Recurves...w/ any type of arrow)

4. Traditional "Hunter Class" - LB's and Recurves. No sights or stabilizers. Bowquivers permitted. Any type of arrow. I believe modern longbows are able to shoot on an equal playing field as recurves.

5. Primitive class - non-glass/non-carbon bows with wood arrows. Even then, one isn't really "traditional" unless they also use either rawhide or sinew strings.

For "traditional only" shoots...

1. Traditional "Hunter Class" - LB's and Recurves. No sights or stabilizers. Bowquivers permitted. Any type of arrow. I believe modern longbows are able to shoot on an equal playing field as recurves...but should one wish to seperate LBs and recurves that too is fine as long as there is ALSO a "top shooter" designation.

2. Primitive class - non-glass/non-carbon bows with wood arrows. Even then, one isn't really "traditional" unless they also use either rawhide or sinew strings.

3. Youth - A. 11-15 & B. 10 and under.
Until next time...good shooting,
Lee

Offline Killdeer

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2010, 10:13:00 AM »
That's just what I need.
Someone who wasn't even born when I started shooting to tell me whether I am traditional or not, when I am shooting a 1970 Grizzly with the sight I bought for it that same year.

Gimme a break.
Killdeer~ and I was in SUCH a good mood.   "[dntthnk]"
Long, long afterward, in an oak I found the arrow, still unbroke;
And the song, from beginning to end, I found again in the heart of a friend.

~Longfellow

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Online Ryan Rothhaar

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2010, 10:20:00 AM »
I'm with Killdeer on this one.

The only good thing about guys that try to draw lines on what other people do is that they end up with one line - a circle around themselves.

That is generally best for everyone involved.

R

Offline Cottonwood

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2010, 10:24:00 AM »
I find this all very, well..... I'll have me another cup of coffee.

Continue on...   :archer2:
Member: Montana Bowhunters Association, Traditional Bowhunters of Montana

"I don't bowhunt for a living... but I live to bowhunt the traditional way!"

Online McDave

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2010, 10:39:00 AM »
Does anyone else find it amusing that we are discussing what should or should not be allowed in "traditional" archery over the internet?  Well, at least it's the "traditonal" internet; no blogs or tweets or IM's or Facebook Friends for us!
TGMM Family of the Bow

Technology....the knack of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

Offline Deadsmple

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2010, 10:44:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
We'll always have some guys around that make their own wood bows and cane arrows. The history is there and the best part of bowhunting is; you can make it as hard or as easy as YOU choose.
Labels be damned.
:thumbsup:
All praise is the Lords


"to get to heaven, turn right and stay straight"

Offline Van/TX

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 10:59:00 AM »
I'm with Bill.  No wheels.  Anything you want to use with that no wheeled bow is cool.  To me it's all about the bow.  Not the arrow or accessories...Van
Retired USAF (1966 - 1989)
Retired DoD Civilian (1989 - 2009)
And drawing Social Security!
I love this country ;-)

Offline eric-thor

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 11:09:00 AM »
Like some others have alluded to: traditional/traditions are either made by others and passed down or created by us and passed down. We as "traditional archers” have a responsibility :to the future generations to teach them what we have learned and enjoy so to hopefully enhance their lives and generations to come ,and to give them a certain sense of self and who we are and who they are . Where they come from. These are old school values and in a big way have been lost to the majority. It’s a darn shame.  

Lines I think we need lots of lines: our history had lots of lines it kept us grounded and we knew where we stood we took pride in our selves and pride in who we were. As people of our community, church, schools, and any other organizations.
one big problem with the world today and in my opinion with this country today is we as a people have erased all the lines (yes some were bad)and in doing so we have lost all sense of who we are, our place in society and in life is in many cases undefined its all up to us be what u want but don’t draw lines ." live and let die” mentality everyone is equal, don’t judge , keep your opinions to your self ,if you see /hear something you don’t like just walk/run away, change the channel, buy a new one don’t fix it!!!!!=don’t stand for anything, follow the easy non-confrontational path .I don’t like something but what can I do about it. Follow the leader he must know what to do.

Sorry i'm ranting.


But anyway we need to be defined as a people, a community, we are traditional archers but we are few, weak and divided. I fear we are history, if we don’t get our heads out of where the sun don’t shine and become the brotherhood we claim to be and so desire to be. We need to have unity to survive we need to accept each other and teach the future we need lines and we need them now! We must choose and commit and BE who we claim to be, or we are dead to the future.
form is everything! shoot well shoot hard.

Offline arky714

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2010, 11:12:00 AM »
Hey do I have to hunt naked,or can i wear a loin cloth,if you wear pants,can we make a exception,for December....Dave Weiner

Offline OkKeith

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2010, 11:14:00 AM »
In regards to the original post, I don't think anything has been lost. Be it history, lore or whatever.

I still say "Traditional Archery" is in the heart of the hunter, not in their hand.

Some states that have "Traditional Archery Only" areas or hunts have a legal definition, but like most efforts to codefy a mostly emotional response to something, it falls short.

I have said it many times before. Traditional is, as Traditional does. Shooting a longbow or recurve doesn't make you a Traditional Archer, it makes you a traditional tackle owner. Being a Traditional Archer is about how you conduct yourself in the field, in public and at home.

OkKeith
In a moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing.
Theodore Roosevelt

Offline eric-thor

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2010, 11:16:00 AM »
please no loin cloths lmao
form is everything! shoot well shoot hard.

Offline Turkeys Fear Me

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2010, 11:20:00 AM »
"Do you guys think we should draw a line in the sand..."

You go right ahead.  The problem with "lines in the sand" is they often turn into fault lines and before you know it, one side is an island.

Offline dan d

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2010, 11:41:00 AM »
Very interesting post, I see both sides on this one. I do feel the same way about the high tech muzzle loaders, in southern Michigan we have a no rifle rule for safety, but it is ok to use the new high tech muzzle loaders that are pretty much equal to a rifle ? I have had every trick wheelie and non wheelie bows made (even oneida's) changed bows every 2 years, sometimes yearly. Now I am shooting a longbow with cedar arrows and don't see any changes in my future. I started bowhunting in 1974 was practicing very seriously in 73 and couldn't wait to go hunting. Started with a used Pearson bought at a garage sale. But in reality, that was not traditional, I used aluminum arrows. A buddy tells me now I'm not traditional, I should be using stone broad heads, and just a stick, not a laminated bow. I'm confused on this one, I see both sides of this story.
Compton member & Michigan Traditional Bowhunter member.

Offline Izzy

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Re: Drawing a line in the Sand??
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2010, 11:46:00 AM »
I like the meaning of this day than the meaning of traditional archery, independance.I dont think it needs any defining.From what Ive seen from threads along this line, I think a lot of folks who want to define traditional want it to be defined to their liking.Youd be a whole lot more content if you come to your own definition and stick to that for yourself.We havent lost all that much in relation to traditional archery, you can still harvest your own staves, canes, sinew for strings and backings and knap your own points the way our predecessors did when there wasnt a choice. The technology is still there for the taking for anyone willing to learn and practice.Not trying to offend anyone and Im not taking offense to this post but these are my thoughts.

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