Bareshafting your Centaur Chimera...

[Lee Robinson .]

I am a believer in bareshafting. I have always been able to do so with Sentman bows, HH longbows, Habu bows (both LB and recurves), Saxon (recurves), and a few others including both longbows and recurves with INCREDIBLE IMPRESSIVE arrow flight. With some of the above mentioned bows, I have even been able to bareshaft some broadheads (which isn't supposed to be possible according to some, but I did so when testing various broadheads for wind plane). That said, there have been a few other bows that I have not been able get consistent "clean" arrow flight either with bareshafts or in some cases even fletched arrows...resulting in poor groupings for ME. I also tend to have a nocking point lower than most other people (just a hair over 3/8" above shelf when using a 2117), yet the bows that "didn't work" for me required unusually high nocking points (about 5/8" to in some cases 3/4" above shelf) to make them do their best (which was still less than perfect). At this stage of my life, I simply do not wish to battle such issues, and now only seek bows that work with MY style of shooting.

When analyzing such tests, I have repeatedly noticed that some of the bows that didn't shoot well for me with MY style of shooting would shoot better if I lifted my hand up off the grip and only held the bow in the throat by using a straight wrist to keep the bow's fulcrum point between my thumb and index finger. Most recent was a Morrison foam & carbon bow. The thing is I don't shoot that way, as I hold a bow and "balance it" on the wrist (not with the "heal" of my hand) by centering it on the bones in my forearm as they act like the "fulcrum" point with my wrist and hand simply being what holds the bow in alignment with those forearm bones. On some of the bows that didn't work for ME, I noticed I could get good arrow flight if I moved my hand up a bit to the point that I shot off my hand about 1/4" - 1/2" above the shelf, which I am obviously not going to keep doing, nor am I going to use a flipper rest, but this illustrated to me that tiller is obviously playing a role in whether or not a bow will work for my style...with my bowhand down, bow balanced on forearm of bowarm, and I also draw the arrow with the split finger method.

Are there other such archers that use a "hand down" position to balance the bow on their forearm bones and also shoot split finger that own the Centaur Chimera that have been able to CONSISTENTLY bareshaft this design...and if so, when doing so was the bow stable? I am also curious as to what nocking point location did you end up with (distance above shelf)?

I ask this because there are obviously a number of people out there that shoot with the "high wrist" position...which seems to require a different tiller...as such bows don't work well for me.

When it comes to bows, beauty is when all you see on your fletched arrows is the fletching spinning around the little dot in the center (the nock) as the arrow flies towards the target. I don't accept ANY wobble...no porposing, no fishtailing.

[Killdeer]

I found that my Chimera likes a little less heel. My CF Dakota likes to be HELD. As the grips on these bows can be as varied as the archers who commission them, with higher and lower grips crafted by the bowyers, each bow must be treated as an individual.

Killdeer

[Lee Robinson .]

By "little less heel" do you mean to imply that you have to shoot it with your bowhand lifted off the lower portions of the grip? And, are you a split finger shooter or a 3 under shooter?

I should have mentioned, what I discovered was even on some "low wrist" bows, I still had to get my hand off the grip and shoot them with a high wrist OR move my hand up and over the arrow shelf to get good arrow flight. I myself am not a fan of such bows and don't keep such bows, although I certainly underrstand they may work great for those that prefer to push with the upper portion of their hand (maybe due to how they grip the bow, draw the bow, or for whatever reason).

I am currently on the waiting list for a Chimera Carbon and I hope it works out well for me given how I shoot...but I thought I would ask.

I have some faith in the bow's stability regardless or I wouldn't have ordered it. I say that because not only does Centaut have a huge following, but Jim (Centaur bowyer) also believes in bareshafting and actually only uses a 2 fletch even with those big broadheads...so his design obviously isn't sensitive for him and many other people.

[Killdeer]

I shoot split finger, and most of my shooting has been done with higher wrist grips from Bear and Ben Pearson. It is natural for me to have the heel of my hand raised, and if the grip does not raise with it, so be it.

That being said, after a session or two with a low grip bow, or one that likes a lot of contact with the heel of the hand, I adapt and all of a sudden that bow is a good shooter! Who knew?

I think you will find that if you talk to Jim about your shooting style, you will find him both a clear communicator (both spoken and written) and a most accommodating bowyer. The more I shoot my Carbon Chimera, the more I appreciate its smoothness and stability. Plus it is a real powerhouse behind an arrow!

Killdeer

[larry]

Lee have you talked with Jim about it? sounds to me like a low grip Centaur would be the ticket for you. As Killie said, his standard grip doesn't like much heel pressure at all, but doesn't have to be shot with aa high wrist grip either.

I had a low grip Centaur that I sold on here awhile back, but I can't remeber who I sold it to, maybe they will see this post and chime in.

[Lee Robinson .]

I have always kept my hand on the grip and always will...as I stated, I don't "heal the bow" but I do prefer the low wrist position as to balance the draw of the bow on my forearm and prefer bows that don't require one to keep the pressure at the top of the hand. I will discuss this with Jim, and being he is the bowyer, I will certainly acknowledge his recommendations.

[larry]

for me anyhow, they don't require a high wrist grip, in fact I've had two with high wrist grips and for me they were more touchy than a med to med low grip.

For years I shot only high wrist grip bows, at the time they were most accurate fro me. but as age creeps up on me I've found that to hold the bow as you're describing takes a whole lot less effort and adds to stability. go with a med low to low wrist grip, and if you don't like it, you can always sell it to me          :D

[Lee Robinson .]

I have always preferred a grip similar to the basic "Hill" type straight grip with a slight offset as Gary Sentman did on his bows when he was making them. They always worked well for me and the old saying is..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I would still be shooting his bows now that I switched to left handed if he himself still made them, but he retired from bowmaking and at this point I am selling my right handed bows and purchasing a few lefties to shoot left handed. Gary has a student that he has taught to make bows, but he is still learning a few things...although I must say his craftsmanship on finish work and fadeouts and such is already nicer than Gary's he still has a little learning to do as Gary's bows did shoot better. I think that student will have a bow as good as Gary's though in a month or so though...

Still...I am picking up a few others from bowyers that have been making them for some time.

I have been shooting for about 18 years now (time flies), and I like the form/style that I have adopted and at this stage of the game the bows need to conform to my style rather than the other way around.

[overbo]

IMO when you start putting ALOT of reflex in a bow,they become far more critical to shooting from.Not only hand placement on the grip but also finger pressure and placement on the string.I do beleive the chase for speed has cost some bowyers greatly in shootability for the average shooter.
I'm full aware of what I beleive your talking about.I too have one of those souped up carbon bows and if I don't stay on it,my shooting concistancy suffers.

[Lee Robinson .]

These bows certainly have a huge following of loyal supporters, and Jim certainly seems to be one of those "field tester" type guys that is pretty critical with high expectations...and he answered all of my questions with a knowledgeable replies. I can tell when a bowyer is blowing smoke and even though I am not a bowyer I have noticed certain features in working limb length, shelf position, and tiller that have worked well for me and his design does have the features I have found to work well for me. So, I imagine the bow will work well for me. Time will tell, but I look forward to finding out when my name comes up.