Problems with Gasket Laquer

[Jwilliam]

I was wondering if anyone has had any problems with gasket laquer flaking off the arrow. I recently switched from dipping my shafts in Minwax fast drying poly,and letting them hang and drip to gasket laquer. I never had any problems with the poly except you had to steel wool between coats and it was more time consuming. I was told about the gasket system by 3 Rivers, they told me that gasket laquer was the way to go. It was much faster, and put on a nice even coat. And the best part was that after you had dipped the 12th arrow you could start over dipping with the 1st arrow. I really liked the way the arrows turned out but, everytime you hit one with another arrow the finish pops right off. It dosen't penetrate the arrow it just seems to sit on top of the arrow. The problem I have is I have 2 dozen new shafts done this way. Does anyone have any suggestions? It seems like I am going to have to just live with it, and go back to poly on the next shafts I buy. Sometimes I guess faster isn't always better!!!
                          Bill

[TradAlaska]

Greetings Jwilliam -- Something is surely amiss.  I have used gasket laquer for many years and have never experienced any flaking.  However, I have never used it on any wood other than POC.  So, I would think either you have some bad laquer or are using it on a wood that it won't stick to for some reason.  I just apply the laquer to the raw shaft and love the stuff.

Cheers from Alaska

[Jwilliam]

TradAlaska,
I am using it on POC shafts as well, I was wondering if it had something to do with the stain I used. It was Minwax wood stain. Could it be that it is not compatable with gasket laquer? I also was wondering if you have any problems with 3D targets. My arrows seem to really hard to pull out of them. They really seem to bond to the target
Bill

[LAR43]

Minwax is petroleum based & lacquer is well . . . lacquer based. Essentially you applied a release agent under the lacquer. Use alcohol or water based stains. when it's dry the lacquer will overcoat it & stick.

Re. 3D targets, what you're experiencing is called lacquer, or target burn. Basically, the lacquer actually melts a little from the friction when it's going into the foam & gluing itself to the surrounding material. To get around it, some guys use a short 6-8" piece of PVC tube about 1 1/2" in dia. with a  sponge stuffed inside then capped on both ends w/ one of the caps drilled out to accept the arrow shaft. Spray some silicone or tire shine inside & dip the arrow before the shot. Fold the sponge longways before you stick it in the tube . .this gives the arrow a channel to follow when you dip it.


Larry

[Kelly]

If your Min-Wax stain is oil based one needs to let that stain dry for 3-4 days. Then it needs to be steel wooled and cleaned with a tack cloth before using Gasket Lacquer. Then put on 3-4 coats of GL.  You will be better off using an alcohol based stain, which dries in a couple hours so one can GL it the same day as staining.

Properly applied Gasket Lacquer will have less target burn than other finishes. Most 3-D targets were not designed to have wood arrows shot into them, but rather very skinny carbons from 300 feet per seconds bows.

[Justin Falon]

I just finished a dipping system using 3" PVC pipe and a threaded rod.  You've all read about the one highlighted in TBM and that is what I made.  I can only do 6 at a time, but I soak them in poly. for a few days and then hang them to dry overnight. Sand them lightly with steel wool and then submerge them again for a few days.  The finish is super tough!!

jf

[LBR]

I used GL for years, and without exception they all started flaking sooner or later (if the arrow survived long enough).  I use an epoxy finish now--takes a little longer, but it's cheap, easy, everything you need is available at any hardware store/Wal-Mart/etc., and it's much more durable.

For target burn/arrows sticking in the target, the solution is simple.  Get a bar of soap (the small motel bars work great) and rub the first few inches of your arrow with it.  Re-apply after a few shots--also cheap and easy.

Chad

[M60gunner]

I can not believe GL will soak into the wood no matter what stain or no stain is used. It is to thick and there is not enough left on shaft. It also dries to fast. I like the fast process but GL has some draw backs as has been noted already. Target burn is a pain to deal with on the range. I have had some luck waxing my arrows before I shoot. I use a wood paste wax (Johnson`s) a big can from Home depot has lasted a long time.
 Do not forget that GL is not waterproof, for you that live in wet climes. It also needs to be warm when applying. It also helps if the shafts are warm. LBR I like the soap idea, I have been using Armor All on a sponge. Gets messy on the range.

[Steve P]

I bought some finished arrows last year that have gasket lacquer for the finish. I will never buy or use it on any arrows I will make in the future. Seems like it doesn't take much to get it flaking and peeling. I've only used fletch-lac but may try something different next batch I do myself.


Steve

[dino]

Wow, I've been using GL for years and years and have never have had a shaft start flaking.  Just never happened.  Lacquer does not penetrate, it coats the surface of the shafts.  My guess, as stated above, there is some sort of conflict with the stain that was used under the lacquer.  I use alcohol or water based stains.  I would give it another try before you give up.  dino

[LUCKY MAN]

I've been using Nitrocelluos Laquer from Home Depot in a gasket tube and works fine, requires a few more coats but for $18.00 a gallon I'm still saving some money.

[soaring eagle]

I have used gasket laquer for a couple of years never had problem. some of the minwax stains are also a urethane sealer all in one so that would not work

[Kelly]

I used GL for over 15 years now and never had one flake. Don't know where that is coming from. Most problems come from not putting on enough coats. I would thin my GL some so it pulls through the gasket easier and would put on 6-8 coats per shaft. This is how I did the arrows that were sold through Arrows by Kelly and never had one customer ever complain about the finish flaking.

Likewise, never had any problems with it not adhering to the wood. And yes, lacquer is not waterproof. If you only put on a couple coats the moisture will get through the finish and swell the wood thus causing the finish to crack. Maybe this is what is happening to some of you. Multiple coats will serve better in the long run and keep the moisture out of the wood, unless left out in damp grass or in heavy rains.

Nitrocelleous Lacquer is the same as Gasket Lacquer except for viscosity. The much thinner NL from Home Depot will work but it requires 12-14 coats of finish to have enough and all these times in and out of gasket wears them out faster so one needs to take this into consideration when comparing cost. I used it for awhile in the shop but it just took too long to get the required amount of finish on a shaft compared to the thicker GL and I would wear out 1+ holes in the gasket for each dozen I did.

For the toughest finish that lasts a long time I use oil based polyurethane, 4-5 coats. It takes about 3-4 days to do it this way but they will be waterproof and burn like crazy in 3-D targets. Frankly, I don't shoot 3-D targets but if I did would use aluminum or carbon. Wood just doesn't work in todays high density foam.

Always remember that it is better to put on multiple thin coats than 1-2 real thick ones.

[LBR]

I tried every trick I could find out about--I thinned it, I put poly on under it, I put as many as 10 coats on, I used different stains, etc.  Sometimes it lasted for a while, but eventually it flaked.  I talked to gobs of folks who had the same problems as I had with it.

I shoot a lot of 3-D, exclusively with wood arrows.  The epoxy finish I use now works, but does get some burn on some types of targets.  The soap I mentioned earlier takes care of that just fine, plus makes the arrows much easier to pull (regardless of what type arrow is used).

Chad

[Claypipe]

Curiosity killed the cat, but I just wonder why target arrows need a finish.  I am new to the wood arrow deal and I can see the reasons for finish on hunting arrows where you will be out in who knows what kind of weather.  I just wonder why it is important for target shooting.  Please tell me if I need to finish mine.  Thanks alot guys, TMG.   :confused:

[Jon Stewart]

Kelly, I also use GL and haven't had any problems at least so far.  I read where there is a water proof issue with NL.  I thought it is sold to coat wooden boats.  Also looking for a tip.  I dipped some woods in Helmsman Sapr urethane.  any tips on what glue to use for the feathers and nock?
Thanks,
Jon

[LBR]

Claypipe, wood arrows will absorb moisture, which will affect them.  Humidity is high here in the South, and it's liable to rain at any given time.  I was at the TN Classic a little over a week ago, and due to waiting until the last minute to get some arrows matched to my self bow, they didn't get sealed.  I got rained on before I finished the course, and my arrows went from darts to wet noodles.

Chad

[Flesner]

I've used GL for years also, Kelly. The only time I see cracking or flaking is on lost arrows that have been outdoors for a season or so.
I try to keep the dip thinned with acetone and apply it at room temp with several coats for a nice finish. If I color them at all I use a water based dye.
It seems to do just fine and I never have trouble with them sticking in foam targets either.

[Kelly]

Jon Stewart;

Duco will work great on Spar urethane, polyurethane and Gl.