Hybrid longbow design; how old?

[Flying Dutchman]

I like hybrid longbows very much. From the moment I shot one, I felt this was the bow for me.
The one I shot first was the Sky Rogue, made by Hoyt jr. It is a bow of more then 30 years old.
Now I am wondering: who was the first one who came up with this design? Or how long does the hybrid longbow design excist?

[Jeremy]

There's nothing new about the hybrids...

There are some depictions of bows from 3000 years ago that resemble the modern hybrid     The Egyption angular bows may go back even further...not sure when those first started showing up.

There's an existing 200 year old bow (? I'll check on that tonight) that's a dead ringer for a moderate r/d longbow.  

More recently, the 1958 Bear Alaskan is a good  example of a r/d longbow, though it was called a 'semi-recurve' back in it's day.

[Van/TX]

Yep.  Another example would be the Ben Pearson Colt around 1959 to 1961.  It was called a semi-recurve also     ...Van

[David Mitchell]

In the 50's they were called semi-recurves, a name which fits much better than "longbow" (IMO).

[BobW]

wasn't there a term "long-curve"?

[Jeremy]

They've also been called "non-contact recurves"  

[ken denton]

This is my 75# Ben Pearson longbow R/D in 1957. Reflex and Deflex. Ken

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by ken denton:
   This is my 75# Ben Pearson longbow R/D in 1957. Reflex and Deflex. Ken

I think this is a R/D longbow, but not a hybrid? A hybrid has much more R/D and hasn't a proper D-shape. But the string doesn't make contact with the limbs, though it is very close. Mostly they have a pistol grip, like recurves.

See this link:  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=090167;p=4

[LBR]

As noted, it's an ancient design.  I think it's funny when these bows are referred to as not being "traditional".

Chad

[Curveman]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
In the 50's they were called semi-recurves, a name which fits much better than "longbow" (IMO).

I agree. I don't really care if they're called hybrids though. Just not longbows although it's not a huge deal in any case. I just hope bowyers don't all follow the trend and stop making real longbows so that hybrids are one day seen as the "real longbows" and the new generation doesn't remember what a real longbow was or care! Calling hybrids longbows pushes it in that direction I think.

[LBR]

Serious question:  who gets to decide what is or is not a "real" longbow?  That is, other than the peoplel who make them and tournament organizers.

The deflex/reflex design is considered to be a longbow by the IBO, the Howard Hill, the Jerry Pierce, the TX State Longbow Assn., every state tournament I've shot in (AL, MS, GA, etc.)

I understand opinion, but those all carry the same weight.

[wulf]

I agree with Curveman.  I hope the "hybrid" style of longbow doesn't keep bowyers from making the old "D-shaped" longbows but sales will determine that.
I think as materials get better, bowyers can take advantage of new properties and create bows that wouldn't have been possible just a few years ago. And I suppose computers will take a part in designing them.  These tools and not a lack of creativity on the part of the bowyers of old will bring about bow designs that were unheard of. Just my guess.

[Van/TX]

Serious question: who gets to decide what is or is not a "real" longbow? That is, other than the peoplel who make them and tournament organizers.
 

Me and Curvman    It's really a personal opinion    ...Van

[LBR]

Van, I have to admit your opinion carries more weight than the average Joe.

[Gray Buffalo]

This is one of mine

 

Nothing is new

[Van/TX]

Gray Buffalo, now that's what I'm talking about.  Perfect example.  1954, now that's cool     ...Van

[d from phx]

I shoot a hybrid long bow made by White wolf Bows a sponsor on here. It has made it easier for me. The design is here to stay.

[KY..Rob]

I love the Hybrids! I get the best of both worlds..Recurve speed with the Stealth of a Longbow.

I'm shooting a "Rapture" By Eddie Francisco" The Bow is a pure shooter!

The design is Timeless..The only thing to really change is the materials. I love those Double Carbon Limbs.

Rob..

[Liquid Amber]

Hoyt, as noted above, generally is given the distinction of being the first to produce and attempt to popularize the design, but it failed due to it being marketed as a semi-recurve.  Nobody wanted a "semi" bow, but when the design returned later as a longbow, folks bought off on it because it performed above the standards of the historical longbow, but below that of a full working recurve.  And, something about shooting a longbow seems cooler.  

This design is a recurve "tweaked" to allow the string to seperate from the bow limb when braced.  The 21st Century bows brought about a nenewal of interest in these bows because they could be entered in the longbow class at shoots and quickly became dominate.  And the rest is history as they say.

There is nothing in this design that resembles the historical longbow.  A more appropriate name would be "hybrid recurve."

If you study the history and in particular Howard Hill, who started his archery career making and using the English longbow and then laminated bows you will find that he didn't call his laminated bows "longbows" for quite some time.  He knew his Hill style bow wasn't a longbow, so he referred to it as a "straight end" bow for years before finally changing his stance.  I believe marketing had something to do with his change of heart as well.  

With the arrival of synthetic laminates and advanced adhesives a completely new universe was was opened to bow design.  Along with it came the problem of defining all these "bastard bows" as Hill once wrote.

I explain the modern usage of longbow and recurve in this manner.  If you go into a store and ask for a cup of coffee [recurve], they serve you a cup and everyone knows what a cup of coffee is.

You go into the same store and ask for a soda [longbow] and you will be asked in return, "What kind of soda?"  One cannot determine the type of soda wanted until you further define it.

The term "longbow" has evolved so far from its historical usage that its only value today is lumping all bows that aren't recurves into a generic group.

[coaster500]

Quote:
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"I agree. I don't really care if they're called hybrids though. Just not longbows although it's not a huge deal in any case. I just hope bowyers don't all follow the trend and stop making real longbows so that hybrids are one day seen as the "real longbows" and the new generation doesn't remember what a real longbow was or care! Calling hybrids longbows pushes it in that direction I think."
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Curveman, Wolf I don't think Bowyers will quit building them as long as folks are buying them