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Author Topic: 50# not enough...really?  (Read 1601 times)

Offline Ratatat

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2010, 11:40:00 PM »
Unfortunately, Ray there aren't any moose and very few elk here in PA, so to answer your question sir...NONE.  Just as you thought.  I was merely chiming in with my own personal line of BS like everyone else.  Nice knives.

Offline sagebrush

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2010, 01:56:00 AM »
50 lbs. is plenty for deer. I prefer more weight if hunting elk. Can 50 lbs. kill an elk? Sure. But I had one elk quartering away that turned at the shot. I hit him right in front of the hip. The arrow went through the stomach and came out the neck. I don't think 50 lbs. would have done that. I also shot one out of a tree stand that I hit in the scapula. The arrow went through and into the vitals. I just like the little extra bit of insurance. If I couldn't shoot 60 lbs. I would have to shoot less and be more careful. Most of the time it won't make any difference. But I prefer 60 and above on elk. Gary

Offline Don Stokes

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2010, 08:38:00 AM »
Draw weight alone doesn't tell the tale. A self bow puts out considerably less energy than a modern FF recurve at the same draw weight. For instance, my 40# recurve shoots the same arrow as my 50# r/d longbow, at the same speed.

I would hunt elk with a 50# FF recurve, but probably not with a 50# Dacron-strung self bow.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.- Ben Franklin

Offline NancyVTAS

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2010, 09:42:00 AM »
Connie Renfro can answer this with much success with light bows and self bows>

Offline Greg Skinner

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #84 on: July 20, 2010, 03:31:00 PM »
These discussions, even occurring as often as they do, are largely irrelevant, because they are always comparing apples to oranges.  Obviously, a 45# bow whether it be longbow, r/d, recurve or self bow, when measured at 30" draw length is not the same bow as a 45# bow measured at 27" draw length.  I like Dave Petersen's formula for leveling the playing field. If the bow will shoot an arrow weighing in the neighborhood of 650 grains at a velocity in the neighborhood of 150 fps it will work for elk.  Since I have a short draw length (27") I use this threshold to determine which bow I will use for elk and which will be acceptable for deer.  All of the other things that have been mentioned regarding increasing the overall efficiency of your outfit still apply - i.e. good arrow flight, high foc, sharp broadheads, etc. Discussing the best and/or minimum draw weight in and of itself just has too many variables to be able to reach valid conclusions.
And in the end of our exploring we shall return to the place where we started and know that place for the first time.

Offline Ragnarok Forge

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #85 on: July 20, 2010, 03:59:00 PM »
Greg just made my point on this nicely.  It is not about the bow weight.  Dr. Ashby's work has proven multiple times that while more draw weight is an enhancement it is a minor one when compared to proper tuning and arrow optimization.  

I shoot 55lbs because I am comfortable shooting it and shoot well with that weight.  I have been told and read that 55lbs at 30 inches is equivalent to 65 lbs at 28 inches.  Not sure if it is true or not.  

I spend my time practicing and making sure everything is tuned perfectly.  I like to get close enough to smell the elk and see the whites of their eyes before sending an arrow down range.  I stump shoot and practice my stalking and tracking skills all year round, all of which matter a whole lot more than working up to a heavier bow weight.  

I never shoot at game past 25 yards so the arrow trajectory won't improve much with the heavier weight bow.  Plus, arrow velocity is a minor factor in animal penetration.  It helps, but is not nearly as important as the mass of the arrow, perfect tuning, and a razor sharp broadhead.  I spend my time, money, and effort on optimizing my set up for the bow I shoot best.

I live in the middle of elk, bear, cougar, and deer country and have hunted my entire life.  50 lbs is plenty of weight for all of them.  The wife hunts with 42 lbs.  She gets spitting close before taking her shot.  She can make meat just like the heavy bow shooters. Nothing wrong with a heavier bow.  If you like them have at it.  I value my shoulders enough to know that I need to stick with 55 lbs.
Clay Walker
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Offline John Nail

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #86 on: July 20, 2010, 04:38:00 PM »
my Pronghorn is 52lbs. Killed everything I've shot with it.
Is it too late to be what I could have been?

Offline Jason R. Wesbrock

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #87 on: July 20, 2010, 08:50:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NancyVTAS:
Connie Renfro can answer this with much success with light bows and self bows>
I was just thinking the same thing myself.   ;)

Offline wollelybugger

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2010, 06:19:00 AM »
I made the original statement and would use a bow over 50 pounds for Elk and Moose, if I couldn't shoot the heavier weight than I wouldn't hunt Elk or Moose...Shoot whatever you want with whatever you want but I feel you need the right tool for the job. Lighter bows shoot heavy arrows but the distance is critical. A arrow will drop quite a bit with just a five yard error shooting heavy arrows from a light bow. The arrow drops like a rock past 20 yards.

Offline RC

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #89 on: July 30, 2010, 11:49:00 AM »
I have always been quick to offer advise to people shooting low poundage. 45 -50 pounds. I have been a fan of "big" broadheads for years like Snuffers and Simmons but now as bad shoulders and getting more "Mature"...lol has set in choices have to be made.

  This year I`ll be shooting around 47 pounds at 27 out of a mild r/d longbow. I`m not hunting Elk but I will be taking downward shots at Whitetails and pigs and as we all know an exit wound is a must.Like I said the shoe is on the other foot now and thinking back on my advise given to others maybe does`nt seem so sound to me now.Its all about confidence and do I feel confident shooting a snuffer from a 47 lb bow for ME. No I don`t. I have some no mercy heads and woodsmans that I feel good about . I could probably go up 5 pounds or so but since shooting less poundage my accurracy has improved greatly actually better than its ever been. My shoulder and neck don`t hurt after shooting and the whole experience is more enjoyable.Maybe this drop in pounds will allow me to shoot many more years ...I hope so.

  Back to the original question  about 50 pounds killing Elk I must say...

1. I`ve never killed one
2. More is better if the accurracy is the same.
3. If I had the chance to go elk hunting this year I would go with the above mentioned equipment. 47 @ 27 550 grain arrow no mercy head.
4. If an Elk got within 25 yards broadside ...he would be in trouble.
6.We tend to over think things sometimes. Its really simple ..know your equipment...know your limitations...don`t push either...be honest with yourself...And HAVE FUN...RC

Offline Robert Honaker

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #90 on: July 30, 2010, 09:11:00 PM »
Didn't fred eichler kill all the big game species in north america with 54lbs at his draw and around a 500gr arra?  :deadhorse:

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #91 on: July 30, 2010, 09:44:00 PM »
Ratatat,

I think there's one or two posting on this thread that aren't shooting a line of BS.

You do have elk in PA.We don't have elk in GA. I've hunted them, though. I got in my car and went where they have elk.
------------------------------------------------
The idea that we have different setups for different animals is to me a little odd. You don't see golfers changing clubs, or baseball players using a different bat because the ball park they're playing in today requires the ball be hit further to get over the fence.

A guy a lot older and smarter than me told me that successful bowhunting was the elimination of mistakes.

Setting yourself up to hunt one bow and arrow for whitetails, then travel out west with a different setup for elk or moose or brown bear or sheep- you're working against the very thing you're always trying to do- groove your swing.

Your hair-covered computer then has to keep track of which setup your using and remember the flight of the arrow differently from your home setup- a perfect scenario under pressure to then go on automatic and shoot that grooved swing-and make a bad hit.

I shoot the same thing at squirrels and turkeys I would use on a moose. Dead is dead. The turkey doesn't care that my arrow goes 1 foot past him or 50 feet- he's still dead. Neither does the elk.

The margins for error are big in our game- and bad things happen to good people all the time.

I run an archery hunting operation and I've seen firsthand quite a few shots on game made by a fairly sizeable crowd of people.

You are right- all of you-when you say accuracy is he most important thing. But accuracy with an unsharpened broadhead?

We have had perhaps 120 guys come through HH. Some know sharp, and some are struggling.  There's no doubt in my mind that the biggest hurdle for a lot of the guys who switch from compounds, where they use presharpened heads- to stickbows- is learning what is and isn't sharp and how to get them and keep them that way.

I'm not putting anyone down here....I'm saying if you have no reference by which to judge "sharp" then how do you know? Ron at KME is working on something that will aid even the most tender-footed person to get them hunting sharp, and I hope he gets it put together.

How about a medium weight bow and arrow combination that strikes a bone like a moose rib? There's lots of variables and situations that occur in the field- take all these variables and more into account, then add game movement into the mix- and the potential for something unplanned can quickly become reality.

I want to build up to, and hunt with, the most lethal combination of bow and arrow I can get to with comfort and accuracy- not work down to what I can shoot most accurately- which is a 30 lb bow and knitting needle arrows. A guy on here posted that a woman shot a 400 lb hog with a 32# bow and killed it. I don't think I'd recommend people use 32 lb bows for hogs, based on that occurrence.

I've had lots of guys hit pigs at Hog Heaven- we've had two or three pass-throughs in the bunch. A hog is a far cry from an elk or moose.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline String Cutter

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #92 on: July 31, 2010, 12:04:00 AM »
Well, I ain't never shot an elk or moose but I did stay at a Comfort Inn??
I am shooting 43@27 with a mild R/D longbow and 475 arrow. I feel that for whitetail, black bear, hogs, rabbit squirrel?? this should be enough for 99% of anything I will get to hunt.
If I ever do get to elk/ moose hunt I will bump it up 7-8 pounds in weight and feel o.k. about it.
Fatherhood is the greatest adventure a man can ever take.

Offline Bill Sant

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #93 on: July 31, 2010, 01:15:00 AM »
I shoot 50 pounds for everything here in Alaska.  Yeah yeah I know and I also use 3 bladed woodsmans, horrors!!!!!!!  have taken multiple moose and a very nice griz.  Lots of black bears etc.  Guess I am a product of the late 50s and 60s when the normal draw weight was about 42 pounds for deer in Utah.  I have never seen the need for blowing 30 yards out the other side of an animal.  Granted, two holes give more of a blood trail, but an animal that is running with a sharp broadhead slashing around in his chest isn't going far.  I've had non passthroughs that look like a vegimatic got turned loose in the chest cavity.  Nuff said

Offline Slasher

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #94 on: July 31, 2010, 01:22:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Sant:
 I I've had non passthroughs that look like a vegimatic got turned loose in the chest cavity.  Nuff said
Ain't that just Kewl How that werks?
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes.
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Offline Cottonwood

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2010, 01:32:00 AM »
:coffee:
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"I don't bowhunt for a living... but I live to bowhunt the traditional way!"

Offline brinkwolf

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2010, 03:53:00 PM »
Just to make clear I am not just a heavy bow shooter. I have two bows in my sig below 60# and three more not listed(a 35#,40# and 45#). Now these weights are at the 28" standard not my draw length of 30" which they would be heavier. Matter of fact the BW SAII in my sig I listed at 54# because that is what it is at my draw length. The bow was actually tillerd 49#@28". So with a long draw length most of your bows with me drawing them will be up about 5lbs or more. I also stated outright at the begining of my post that 50# would work for the question at hand and just to clear things up I see nothing wrong with lighter weight bows. I too enjoy shooting them.

Offline wasapt

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2010, 02:24:00 PM »
keep in mind that 50lbs typically is for a 28" draw. Fred Eichler has over a 30" draw so his 54lb palmer is really shooting an arrow with closer to 60lbs of force. If you have a shorter than 28" draw, you will not be shooting 50lbs.
bryce olson

Offline Andy Cooper

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2010, 02:44:00 PM »
Even though this thread my have been   :deadhorse:   for many of you, I've very much appreciated the conversation. When I posted the OP, I was down to one bow...a Martin Hunter my wife gave me when we first married. It's 50@28. Now I have a Dye Medicine Point, also 50@28, on the rack, and will place an order for a Shrew early next week. I was trying to decide, when I started the thread, if I was going to return to the 60-65# bows, or stay in the 50-55# range. Looks like 50-55# is the winner.  :D
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Offline JimB

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Re: 50# not enough...really?
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2010, 02:48:00 PM »
I have read that Fred Eichler's bows are 54# at his draw length of 30.5".

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