Why do we do it ?

[ChuckC]

Recently we discussed the issue of how to, or even whether or not to, present data, verbal, body language or pictoral to the world.  Thank you Biggie for asking that question.

Made me think... a lot.    I know, that is dangerous (and it hurts).

We often say things like. .  "we owe it to the animal". . .and I would love to understand that better.

What do I owe ?  To what / who   do I owe this ?WHY do I owe it ?   How do you know this ?


Is this a regional thing ?  A religious thing ?  Family teaching ?  Exactly what do I owe to some animal and why ?  Do I owe this to all animals on this earth, or only the pretty ones, or the ones that are popular ?  

Does it say to do this in the regulations ?  the Bible / Koran / etc ?

If I don't feel the same way, am I a bad person ?
ChuckC

[Ethan Grotheer]

My personal ethics(take it for what you want):

I believe we are given stewardship over the game we hunt, and we are accountable for how we conduct ourselves towards game we've been entrusted with. Whether it means practicing good conservation towards a species, or simply making as much use out of what we kill. There's also simply my own personal morals. I don't particularly enjoy seeing any game animal suffer, so I do whatever I need to to ensure a quick and humanr death.  And as far as pics and representation go, it's just about having a little class, and then it goes back to the fact that I'm not going to disrespect the gift I've been given..
Overall, I guess I feel accountable to God for how I conduct myself.

That's my take, and you'll get a million different answers, but I think we all inheirantly feel some obligation to show respect to the game we kill. In one form or another.

[mathews4ever]

I personally believe that what you(actually all of us) owe is respect. Respect for the animal, because you are taking its life and respect for yourself. NO self respecting hunter would take a bad shot. I say take, because there is always going to be the unfortunate situation where you "make" a bad shot, but "taking" is a voluntary choice. It may not be as blatant as taking a shot on a deer while it is facing you, it could be not practicing enough, not checking your gear, not clearing proper shooting lanes or using gear not properly suited for the job.

Do I believe that people that don't believe they owe the animals something are bad, NO. Do I believe they have the wrong opinion and should reconsider, YEP.

[Dustin Waters]

I think its more of a personal thing.  
If I am going to take the life of any animal, I sure think I owe it to them to make it painless.  I certainly don't want to be tortured when I die.  Why would I expect an animal to do the same thing.  I spend a lot of my time, money, and spirit chasing wild animals around the country side, and I want to be able to say at the end of the hunt that I did it correctly, didnt cause any undue stress to that animal more than needed to have a fruitful hunt.  I guess when it comes down to it, if I make a bad shot or lose an animal, that emptiness in my gut sticks with me longer than a clean shot and quick kill.  Sorrow is a tough emotion to get rid of and knowing I caused some real pain and stress to an animal causes me a great deal of that.

[COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE]

Proabably not many readers of the koran on here, but The Bible talks about hunting animals from Genesis on.  The fact that God has given us the earth to dwell on and to have dominion over the animals tells me that we are to have respect and reverence for both.  I take what I believe as a christian and apply it to every aspect of my life.  Whether at work, or in the woods, or next to the Skagit River with a line in the water, even if nobody is watching, I try to conduct myself in a manner that is suiting to him.  

And to answer your question about which animals to respect, I don't believe in taking a shot on a coyote or a stinky old pig that I wouldn't take on a beautiful animal like a deer.  Your level of respect shown and your personal ethics are up to you.  After all, you are the one that has to live with your decisions.

[Ragnarok Forge]

I take a fairly open stance on other persons choices and a very narrow look and stance on my own.  

I have a duty to every animal I hunt to try and make a clean quick kill.  I make the choice to take close shots to ensure a clean kill.  That is my personal ethic.  Having said that I will shoot 25 yards at a rabbit or an elk.  That was ingrained into me early in life by my parents. Being a christian I also believe I have a responsibility to be a steward to all animals as called out in the bible.  

I shoot hard and practice on my form to help ensure clean kills.  I only take close shots that I believe will hit where I am looking.  I will happily show pictures of blood and wounds, hit points on the animals I shoot.  I will simple choose to show them to hunting buddies and not to feeble minded folks who can't handle what death looks like.  I take a few cleaned up shots for the feeble minded yet curious types.

These are just my thoughts and my way.  Each person chooses their own way and ethics.  It is not my place to decide what they do is right or wrong.  We have laws and Lord knows we pay enough taxes for the regulatory groups to handle enforcement.

[Buckwheaties]

I wonder if the archers of old, flinging a quiver full of arrows at 100yds at a deer, had thoughts like are expressed here? I guess time changes ethics? I'll bet that over the last thousands of years of man taking game with a bow, thoughts of ethics were even nonexistent.

[Ron+dog]

if i put a shot on an animal i owe it to that animal to do my best in the recovery effort once i recover that animal i owe it respect and to a point my life because i killed it that i may live
EAT WHAT YOU KILL !!!!!!!!

[McDave]

Current hunter ethics have been evolving for a long time.  Back in the 1800's, whole buffalo herds were slaughtered for the hides and not much else.  The carcasses were left to rot on the plains.  If you read through "Witchery of Archery" by Thompson, you will find many occasions where they took long shots at herons, etc., just for fun, and if they hit one, they would maybe take one of its feathers, if they wanted one, or just leave it on the ground if they didn't.  When bowhunting began to become popular in the early to mid 1900's, people thought it was incredible that anyone would go hunting with a bow, mainly because by that time, there wasn't much game left out there to hunt!  Some of our heroes from the 1900's, like Fred Bear, had hunting ethics (or lack thereof) that would raise more than a few eyebrows today.

I would imagine that if we had the chance today to get to know Maurice and Will Thompson, or Fred Bear, or some of the unknown buffalo hunters from the 1800's, we would like them and would want to get to know them better.  I don't imagine their basic character is any different from our character today.  Not enough time has passed between then and now to change the basic character of man.

Who knows what people will think of us 100 years from now?  Will they hate us for burning through most of the remaining oil and polluting the planet?  Or for some other thing we do that doesn't even occur to us as being questionable at the present time?

I think much of our ethics is based on hindsight.  We look back at the way game was treated in the past, and it seems wrong to us on reflection, so we don't want to repeat or continue those practices.  I'm sure the same is true with other ethical issues, such as slavery.  We recognize Jefferson as a great human being and respect what he did on behalf of our country.  But we believe he was wrong to hold slaves, even as we recognize that he felt no moral issues in doing so.

[John Scifres]

Cruelty to non-human animals can be an early indicator of cruelty to humans or indifference to human suffering.  Many sociopaths exhibit animal cruelty.

I don't assign human emotions to non-humans so I don't really know if I owe a non-human a humane death.  

What I do know is that different humans have different tolerance levels for witnessing suffering and death.  We owe it to ourselves and our hunting heritage to exhibit our kills and killing in the best light possible to preserve our lifestyle.  It's common decency in a sense.

It's also a privacy issue.  Most people don't want to watch what we do in the restroom everyday.  We don't hide that because we are doing something wrong.  We do it behind closed doors because most folks don't want to see it.

[lpcjon2]

I look at it like this- if im gonna get shot,make it a quick kill cause I don't want to walk around my yard till the bleeding stops and end up coyote food.So i wouldn't want any animal to feel the same way.JMO

[chopx2]

Originally posted by McDave:
Current hunter ethics have been evolving for a long time.  Back in the 1800's, whole buffalo herds were slaughtered for the hides and not much else.  The carcasses were left to rot on the plains.  If you read through "Witchery of Archery" by Thompson, you will find many occasions where they took long shots at herons, etc., just for fun, and if they hit one, they would maybe take one of its feathers, if they wanted one, or just leave it on the ground if they didn't.  When bowhunting began to become popular in the early to mid 1900's, people thought it was incredible that anyone would go hunting with a bow, mainly because by that time, there wasn't much game left out there to hunt!  Some of our heroes from the 1900's, like Fred Bear, had hunting ethics (or lack thereof) that would raise more than a few eyebrows today.

I would imagine that if we had the chance today to get to know Maurice and Will Thompson, or Fred Bear, or some of the unknown buffalo hunters from the 1800's, we would like them and would want to get to know them better.  I don't imagine their basic character is any different from our character today.  Not enough time has passed between then and now to change the basic character of man.

Who knows what people will think of us 100 years from now?  Will they hate us for burning through most of the remaining oil and polluting the planet?  Or for some other thing we do that doesn't even occur to us as being questionable at the present time?

I think much of our ethics is based on hindsight.  We look back at the way game was treated in the past, and it seems wrong to us on reflection, so we don't want to repeat or continue those practices.  I'm sure the same is true with other ethical issues, such as slavery.  We recognize Jefferson as a great human being and respect what he did on behalf of our country.  But we believe he was wrong to hold slaves, even as we recognize that he felt no moral issues in doing so.

Worth reading again...I never read a more insightful and eloquent response to this often repeated question. Thanks you

[ChuckC]

It seems to me that no other animal on the planet cares about this or even considers it.  

On larger game wolves and coyotes appear to often start feaasting before the critter is even dead.  A video I watched very sadly showed a doe on her side, watching as a wolf (or coyote. .  can't recall) was eating its rump.

ChuckC

[shortstroke 91]

First let me say that religion has nothing to do with my answer and IMO should be left from the discussion.
I believe since we are taking the life of an animal what we "owe" them is as quick and honourable a death as possible.
No animal, should die with undue suffering. That being said let us not be mistaken that we do cause some suffering just by the act of killing.
In the end we are all accoutable to ourselves for what we do and how we do it.

[buckeye_hunter]

To address one of the questions; "Do I owe this to all animals on this earth, or only the pretty ones, or the ones that are popular?"


It should be that we respect ALL animals, but I would venture to guess many of us are a bit hypocritical in that respect.

How many people won't kill ants or bees at a picnic? Is that life worth less because it is small?

[COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE]

Originally posted by shortstroke 91:
First let me say that religion has nothing to do with my answer and IMO should be left from the discussion.  

Hmmmm, you have an avatar that is a likeness of the devil and then say religion should be left out of it?  The op clearly asked about whether religious beliefs have a bearing on the matter for somebody.  Your religion or the lack thereof may or may not influence your beliefs on hunting, but if someone asks the question I don't think you should tell them to leave it out.  Its their topic, let them ask it however they want.

[bornagainbowhunter]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
It seems to me that no other animal on the planet cares about this or even considers it.  

On larger game wolves and coyotes appear to often start feaasting before the critter is even dead.  A video I watched very sadly showed a doe on her side, watching as a wolf (or coyote. .  can't recall) was eating its rump.

ChuckC

The difference is that they don't have a conscience and you do.  I do believe in God, and that belief is apart of every decision I make and therefore relevant to any discussion. Even without that belief I think people should feel a responsibility to any animal taken to do it properly and without carelessness and unnecessary suffering.

I don't tear up when I shoot an animal or feel badly for that animal.  God put them here for us.  I am using the resource. I just feel as though it should be done in a proper manner.

[lpcjon2]

Originally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
 

Originally posted by ChuckC:
It seems to me that no other animal on the planet cares about this or even considers it.  

On larger game wolves and coyotes appear to often start feaasting before the critter is even dead.  A video I watched very sadly showed a doe on her side, watching as a wolf (or coyote. .  can't recall) was eating its rump.

ChuckC

The difference is that they don't have a conscience and you do.  I do believe in God, and that belief is apart of every decision I make and therefore relevant to any discussion. Even without that belief I think people should feel a responsibility to any animal taken to do it properly and without carelessness and unnecessary suffering.

I don't tear up when I shoot an animal or feel badly for that animal.  God put them here for us.  I am using the resource. I just feel as though it should be done in a proper manner. [/b]

Bornagain, I have to ask how you know they have no conscience?

[COMPOUNDLESS IN CONCRETE]

lpcjon2, a conscience is a human emotion that animals are incapable of.  The instinct to survive, breed, and protect their young are all they know.  When a wolf, bear, coyote, cougar, or other predator kills, it is for their survival.

[buckeye_hunter]

In many Native American cultures I am fairly sure they believed the animal had a spirit to be honored. Whether they believed ALL animals had a spirit I do not know. Many modern hunters(especially bow hunters) follow in that tradition.

I think each of us kind of create our own perameters on this.

For exaample: It's kind of wierd, but I wouldn't want to shoot a primate or elephant since they mourn their dead(Google elephant graveyard). It would appear they have the intelligence and soul to understand death. On the other hand, there are many animals you can shoot and it seems like the others don't really notice or care. I have seen deer feeding near other dead deer until some coyotes showed up.

Is it just an intelligence thing for me in regard to what animals I will hunt? Well yeah, I guess.....until I get hungry enough. Then there is no telling to what depths a man will sink.....

All that being said, I don't want any animal to suffer more than is necessary. I am not sure if any of that made sense, but that just shows the complexity of the issue.