What do Y'all think of 2-blades w/ bleeders?

[Donnie]

To All,

Well... here's the deal.  I (kinda by accident,) have sold EVERY piece of compound equipment I owned to a good friend who is just getting into archery.  Now the only thing you will find in my house is Traditional equipment.  I guess I'm committed.    

So... With the help of some great folks on this site... I am VERY pleased with my shooting abilities!!!!     (Thanks everyone!)  So... hunting season is quickly approaching, and I am slowly getting my rig set up for hunting Blacktails, and Roosevelt's.  Eventually... I have to make the decision on broadheads.

After a lot of reading... I'm leaning heavily towards the two bladed Brodhead.  I have read and heard some great things concerning the penetration of the 2 bladed broadheads... and feel that this may be the proper route for me to take.  (I'm flinging a 560 grn arrow at 170 fps.)  But... here locally... All I can find that is even close to a "2 Blade" is the "Phantoms".  They are a 2 Blade with a set of bleeder blades.

I read once that Fred Bear was a big fan of 2 blades... but only introduced the "bleeder blades" to provide more clearance (less friction,) for the shaft as it passes through the animal.  I like the idea... but am just really looking for some good insight on 2 blades... vs 2 blades w/ bleeders.

So... I would love to hear your thoughts!

Take care!

Donnie

[tecum-tha]

The problem with 2 blades is, that the wound likes to close fast and the bloodtrail sucks. The Magnus vented with bleed blades are perfect. They`re almost a copy of the old bear razorheads.
Take a GATCO sharpening kit, get an additional coarse diamond stone. Go with 15 degrees, both at the main blade and the bleeders. After grinding to the fine stone, take an old leather belt and use the inner side as a strop to remove the burr. This thing will shave your arms clean. I had a perfect blood trail with the bleeders at my Pope and Young buck last fall. I killed another deer a couple days before this buck using the broadhead without bleeders. I couldn`t find any bloodtrail until the next morning and then recovered the deer. If you hunt in Oregon rain forests, a good blood trail will be essentail for revovery...

[LEFTY_ IN_ WV]

3 Rivers Archery

[sagebrush]

I personally don't worry about the slit closing idea that a lot of people talk about. I have shot 14 elk with zwickey deltas and probably about 25 deer. Haven't had a problem with blood trails. I first went to two blades when I put down the compound in the 80's. I thought I might need the penetration. After using them I would not go back to a multi-blade head even if I did shoot a compound. I have had a few marginal hits and the penetration was more important than a lot of blades. Gary

[JL]

Hey Donnie!

Still flingin em with that Checkmate H2 I sold you a while back?

I use the 125gr Steelforce head and have had good results. I'm shooting hi 40's to low 50's in weight and prefer a two blade head myself. The name of the game is to get your head very sharp and zip it thru the vitals. If your bow/arrow is tuned and you do your part with shot placement, you will be fine. A well made 2 blade head passed thru the boiler room will leave a blood trail Ray Charles could follow. At least, that is my experience.

JL

[SlowBowinMO]

I shoot two blades more than anything else and have found them always to be up to the task and then some.  I like and use all types though depending on my mood.  I am of the personal belief the best multi-blade head is a two blade with bleeders like you mentioned, they are a great compromise.

Another really good option is a BIG 2 blade, best of both worlds!

Like mentioned above, blood trails are more a product of shot placement and sharpness above other factors such as the number of blades.  The larger the quarry, the more I'd lean towards 2 blades, although multi-blades will certainly work as long as your equipment is adequate.

[Orion]

An inbetween is a "4-blade" Zwickey Delta.  The bleeders on it are quite small.  I usually have one or two of each (4-blade and 2-blade)in my 4-arrow bow quiver.  I've shot the 4-blades for about 30 years, though I'm now leaning toward the two-blades a little more for the same reason Sagebrush uses them -- better penetration when one gets a marginal hit.

[Donnie]

Thanks for the responses!!!

Tecum-tha,

Yes... I have hunted the rainforests of the Pacific Northwest all of my life, and because of the amount of rain we get... I have never relied on a recovering an animal by the blood trail.  (Lots of other clues to follow as well as blood.      )  Personally... I like to have them fall within either eye sight... or ear shot.  I will definite try your idea on sharpening!

LEFTY_IN_WV,

VERY seldom do I ever shop on line... I try to keep my shopping locally, and help the economy within my area.  Do you have any suggestions of a beater Brodhead than the Muzzy "Phantoms" that I mentioned earlier?  (I may have to consider shopping on-line.   :rolleyes:   )

Sagebrush,

Now that you are shooting the 2 blades... do you think the "bleeder blades" are more of a help... make no difference at all... or no help at all?  

JL,

I was just thinking about you the other day!  Yes... I am still shooting my Chek-Mate that you sold me, and thus far... we can add about a dozen or so grouse... and a bunch of blue-jays to its history!  I have also purchased a second Chek-Mate for my son.  (Chechen & Bolivian Rosewood riser with limbs veneered with Waterfall Babinga... and Tamo Ash.)  Now he doesn't want to shoot it... and I will probably be the new owner of it!

I did purchase a new set of limbs which are at 53# @ 28",  (I'm pulling 27 1/2") and its hard to think of being any happier with another bow.  I found an area only about 25 minuets from my house that hold two herds of elk.  (One herd has bout 30 head of elk... while the other only holds about 15 or 20.)  I'm not too worried about shooting the Blacktails... but I am really wanting some deep penetration with the big bodied Roosevelt's.  (I'm thinking that the 2 blade is the way to go.)  Again... do you think the bleeder blades make a difference... or am I just fretting over nothing?

SlowBowinMO,

Ya know... I have never even though of those BIG 2 bladed jobbies!  Don't they make some that have a really long taper as well?  How are they on arrow flight?  Do they plane much?  Also... Do you have any suggestions of a BIG 2 blade that would be a good choice?

Orion,

I will take a look at the Zwickey 4 blades.

Take care!

Donnie

[SlowBowinMO]

Donnie,

I'm a big fan of the Magnus I, I like to call them flying hatchets!  I've heard nothing but great things about the Simmons as well.

A big 2 blade will fly surprisingly well from a tuned set up in my experience.  A Magnus I 2 blade gives as much cutting as a Woodsman, but will out penetrate it in most real world scenarios.  That is my opinion and I will readily admit not everybody would agree with me on that.

Most of all use what you have confidence in, as long as it's wicked sharp and placed where it belongs you should have success.

P.S.  When I refer to a 2 blade with bleeders I'm thinking something like a Zwickey or a Stinger.  To me a Phantom is a true 4 blade head (and a very good one).

[8th Dwarf]

50 years of experience, trying all kinds of heads, has taught me one thing for sure.  DO NOT USE MULTI-BLADE HEADS!!!  I use the wide, 135 grain, Magnus two blade and I get wonderful penetration, great blood trails, and quick kills.  I've taken hundreds of animals with these heads and that's all I will shoot.

I had some seriously BAD results with three blade and four blade heads!  Replacable blades are the worst of all!  Many times they will shear off on bone.

Think about this: a two blade punches through bone.  A multi-blade has to SPREAD the bone to get through.  This causes loss of penetration so fast you wouldn't believe it.

It's bowhunting, plane and simple.  A stick, a string, a wooden shaft, and a simple, two-blade head.  Don't make something more of it and complicate your sport.

Just an opinion, but one based on a lot of experience.

Too Short

[8th Dwarf]

Whoops...that should be "plain and simple" not plane and simple!

Still Too Short

[jon]

I shoot 2 blade Stos and Grizzlies. Can't go wrong with either. Tried bleeder blades early on and could never get them to shoot. The also whistled badly. Stick with a shaving sharp quality 2 blade aboard a well tuned arrow at 10-11 grains per pound and listen for the crash:)

Jon

[W.Tim]

i like fixed blades, woodsman,snuffers and magnus stingers

[bluegrassbowhunter]

I like 4 blades myself,& haven't had any penetration problems with them on deer size game...

[8th Dwarf]

I was with a guy who shot a yearling Elk from a rock ledge with a Snuffer.  Zero penetration from a 76 pound recurve!!!  The arrow hit the shoulder blade.  I have had the photo of that shoulder blade in posts here before.  The Snuffer cut a triangular shaped hole in the scapula and didn't go in to the rib cage.  Arrow number two had a Zwickey two blade on it and passed right through the Elk.

Deer?  Maybe, but why even take a chance, especially from a tree where you might hit the spine?  Two blades penetrate just about anything with a heavy shaft.

I shot a Cape Buffalo two years ago with a 960 grain, diamond wood shaft tipped with a 125 grain Magnus.  Read my lips: it SEVERED a 3" wide rib going in and then SEVERED a rib on the off side...this means CUT-IN-HALF!  My outfitter couldn't believe it.  The Magnus head was still sharp, too.

Go with two blades and make your shots count!

Too Short

[Terry Green]

'What do Y'all think of 2-blades w/ bleeders?'

I think they are find and dandy for deer, if not, I'd have quit using them long ago.  I also use them for most big game animals....bear and hogs, and wouldn't hesitate using them on Elk out of my heavier bows.

[Bonebuster]

I`m another who trusts in the penetration of a two blade head. I can honestly say poor blood trails have never been a problem.

I believe the hide stretches just a bit and the opening in the hide is usually larger than the actual width of the broadhead.

In addition to the penetration advantage, is the ease in which a standard two edge can be resharpened.

I have tried two, three , four, and even a six bladed head (Kolpin) . I always come back to a tried and true two edge.

I have an old Bear razorhead that I killed five deer with. I had to retire the head after it had passed through a fat late season doe and bent upon impact with the frozen ground.

This is an age old debate that must be decided by you, and you alone. Just get both lungs and you will have no worries, no matter which head you use.

[Donnie]

Well, I cant say thanks enough for everyone's input!!!

SlowBowinMO,

Your comment on the "Phantom" being more like a 4 blade is one of the many things I was wondering about.  The bleeder blades DO seem kinda big... and I was wondering if the size of the "bleeders" would affect penetration.  I live in an area that is COMPLETELY dominated by compound archers... so the equipment found in the local archery shops are going to be geared towards equipment producing very high speeds.  So... I have been wondering if the "Phantom" would work well for me... or if I needed to go to a true 2 blade.

Dwarf,

I think it was Ashby's report was one of the reports that I was reading concerning the effectiveness of the 2 blade.  And... your comment about the 3 blade (or more) makes since about "Spreading the Bone".  Thanks for the great insight!!!!     )

Tim,

While shooting my compound... I only shot the "Thunderheads".  Well... Now that I'm shooting Traditional only... I' find myself completely oblivious to the different name brands, and styles of the broadheads.  So... I will have to look up the Woodsman, Snuffer, and the Magnus to see what they look like.  (Thanks!)

bluegrasshunter,

I understand what you are saying.  I'm not so much worried about the deer... especially the Blacktail deer, which are a lot smaller than the Whitetail... but I will be doing a lot of hunting for the Roosevelts... which are actually a larger bodied elk than the Rocky Mountain elk.  (Big bodied... smaller antlers.)  Several years back, I shot an elk with a compound which flung a 470 grn arrow at 288 fps.  and I was using the 3 bladed Thunderhead.  I took a beautiful quartering away shot, and the arrow lodged in the heavy muscle on the far side.  ("Muscle"... not bone.)  I still killed the elk... but the lack of penetration has worried me ever since.  (Good Luck this season!)

Terry,

On yer Buffalo... did you use the 2 blade with bleeders?  Actually... one of the reasons I ask is because even though I will be hunting mostly for elk and deer... we have a huge buffalo ranch near by, and on occasion... a buffalo gets out, and the late rancher's wife (rancher died last Fall,) said that I could shoot one if it was ever wandering out in the woods.  So... who knows!  I might be adding buffalo to my list of critters!!!    

Bonebuster,

I have never sharpened my own Brodhead's.... I have always purchased the pre-sharpened type.  But... It sounds like I may have to learn how to sharpen my broadheads if I go with some of the 2 bladed types mentioned in this thread.  I understand about shot placement... so we can lay THAT one to rest.     I'm more concerned about the off hand... "Marginal" shot that can happen to all of us.  If it happens that I make a marginal shot... I sure would like to have the deep penetration on my side!

Take care!

Donnie

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Donnie:
Terry,

On yer Buffalo... did you use the 2 blade with bleeders?  Actually... one of the reasons I ask is because even though I will be hunting mostly for elk and deer... we have a huge buffalo ranch near by, and on occasion... a buffalo gets out, and the late rancher's wife (rancher died last Fall,) said that I could shoot one if it was ever wandering out in the woods.  So... who knows!  I might be adding buffalo to my list of critters!!!        

 

The 1st shot on Buffy was with a TWO blade at 15 yards, and it only went in about 5 inches....it deflected on a rib and stayed outside the rib cage.

The 2nd shot was 35-40 yards with a Wensel Woodsman....and it burried to the fletch.

I don't have a problem spreading bone since I don't aim at those places.  Never had any penetration problems with 4 blades on deer, ...they pass through them like they are made of paper.

[LEFTY_ IN_ WV]

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