What do Y'all think of 2-blades w/ bleeders?

[8th Dwarf]

This is a neat post.  We all have opinioins and not all are the same.  A new comer to our sport has to learn somewhere.  This site can be a good place to learn or a poor place to learn.  So far, I have seen a lot of good information being put out here and I think this is, indeed, a good place to learn.

I struggled for years to learn about bowhunting.  Heck, I started in 1957 after my mom nailed a Whitetail buck with her bow.  I was hooked!  But...there were no bowhunters around, no internet, and few magazines/books on the subject.  I had to learn by trial and error until I began to meet other bowhunters.  They taught me a lot.  It's the responsibility of us "old timers" to pass this info on.

Cheers from Too Short

[beachbowhunter]

Donnie, I bet you can get Stingers (2 blade or 2-with bleeders) at any shop near you. Use the bleeders on deer and the 2 blades on Elk. You could easily use the bleeders on elk too because they are pretty small. Tough as nails (or a shovel, look for THAT post a while back!) and resharpen with a few light strokes of an Accusharp.

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

I used three- and four-blade heads for several years. Pretty much the only time I ever kept an arrow in a deer was if and when I hit the spine. With four-blade heads, they'd stop cold right at the bleeders. With three-blade models, I'd get the very tip of the head through the far side of the bone.

Then in 2004 I went to Colorado for my first elk hunt and I decided to switch to two-blade heads. I've stayed with them ever since.

Since then I've accidentally spine shot one whitetail. The broadhead completely blew through a vertebrae, splitting it like a piece of firewood. The front 15" or so of the arrow was hanging out the far side of the deer.

On a whitetail buck back on '04 I hit him tight to the near side shoulder on a slightly quartering away angle. The arrow hit the knuckle where the off side upper leg bone attaches to the shoulder blade. It sliced right throught that knuckle and burried in the dirt. I was impressed.

Last September a friend of mine and I headed to Ontario for a moose hunt. The owners of the resort, who were also our guides, were a little skeptical of what a recurve could do to a mature bull. After a minor debacle one of the other hunters in camp had with a bull he shot with a high-poundage compound and a mechanical head (which took three shots to get into the rib cage), they were a lot more skeptical of my odds on getting a clean kill with a stickbow.

A few days later I put a 520-grain carbon arrow and a 2-blade head completely through a broadside bull at ten yards, splitting a rib vertically on the off side. The bull was coming straight to my guide, Ted, who got a great view of my arrow blowing through the moose and flying off into the bush. It took me longer to find the arrow than the bull.

Would a three- or four-blade head have done that? Maybe, maybe not. But I know I never have to worry about penetration with the heads I now use. Bloodtrails have never been a problem either, so long as I put the arrow where it was supposed to go,

[JL]

Good to hear Donnie! That is one bow I regret letting go of. That bow about shot itself! if you EVER decide to cut it loose, give me a holler.

When I shot this spike, he duck/spun on me and I caught him in the shoulder   ...

 

The 50lbs Border zipped the Steelforce tipped GT thru the shoulder and exited the lower neck on the other side. If I were to look at a three bladed head, it would be in the woodsman type config 3:1 ratio. As long as the 2 bladers' keep puttin in the freezer, I'll keep on launching them.

JL

[bowdude]

The 3 blade is self defeated for best penetration by design.  Any resistance such as a bone on any one blade pushes the rest of the head into a wedge.  A 4 blade is only slightly better because the blade opposite it can cut the wedge away, but still drags on the other 2.  
  True - compond shooters don't need to worry too much about this with the power they are shooting.  
  The 2 blade pulls the most penetration out of any setup.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Donnie;

Remember, those dollars you spend locally aren't just dollars, they are your voice as well.

Go back to that compound shop and tell the owner you would sure like to spend your money with him, but he does't have quite what you are looking for.  If he is any kind of buisnessman at all, he will have an order catalog on the counter in under a minute, and the broadheads you watn in less than a week.

If he doesn't, well, you know what to do with your money.

[troutms]

I'd say "case closed" on this one.

[Donnie]

Terry,

Just out of curiosity... What grn arrow and about what speed are you shooting?  (Again... I'm at 560 gns. @ 170 fps.)  I'm curious how a set up like mine would stack up against a buffalo.   I know it has everything to do with shot placement, and I know a lot of fellas around here shoot arrows that are a lot heavier than mine, and are doing some terrific things on some purdy big animals.  I guess... in short... since I have never taken a large animal with Traditional equipment.... I just cant help but wonder "How my Set-up" will perform of a large animal, such as a Roosevelt.  Course... I'll never know until I drop the string on a deer or an elk... and somewhere in the back of my mind.... I know that I will be pleasantly surprised.    

LEFTY_IN_WV,

Thanks for the links!  For now... I am shooting carbon shafts.... so I will be looking into something that is threaded, for the insert.  But... I am already messing around with cresting... and I'm already eyeballing some cedar shaft material!   (Thanks again!)

Dwarf,

Yep... this is a great place to learn.  I mostly read... and really haven't posted much.  But... in the last 2 or so years of reading... I have picked up a lot of stuff from this cyber Traditional community.   I have yet to have anyone actually show me how to shoot my recurve.  Most of my present ability came through MANY years shooting a compound... and knowing the basics about arrow flight.  But... in truth... I have had to "un-learn" much of what I knew.... and through trial and error... and gleaning what I can off of this site, I'm shooting better now that I ever thought possible!!!  So... for some fella who lives up in the Piney forests of the Cascade Mountains... and having no one to watch or to learn from... I feel pretty good about what I have learned over the internet!!!   :cool:   (Thanks for your input!)

beachbowhunter,

I will definitely ask about the stingers!  The more I read... and the more information I get through this thread... the more I am looking at trying to find a 2 blade with the 3:1 slope.  Looking at the "Woodsmen"... it looks as though with that much of a taper... you would really get some great penetration.  Also... LEFTY_IN_WV gave me a cool link to the X-Block Diamond sharpener.  It looks like the cats meow for sharpening... I guess I'll now have to look at the "Accusharp".  (Thanks!)

Jason,

Your statement abut not having to worry about penetration with a 2 blade brodhead backs everything I have read about them.  As I mentioned earlier... Hunting most of my life in the Rainforests of Western Oregon hasn't provided me with a rich history of "well marked blood trails".  I (as well as anyone else who is accustomed to hunting in the rain,) have had to learn how to track a deer or an elk by other means.  But... no matter how good of a tracker you are... the shortest track is usually as a result of a deep penetrating arrow... if not a total pass through.  So... Id prefer the deep penetration as apposed to a well defined blood trail.  But... I'll be happy to have both!!!  (Thanks for the input!)

JL,

Boy... I sure am glad you like your "Boarder" as much as you do.  I'd suggest that you give it a name, tuck it in at night... and give it a good nights kiss.  That way I can sleep better knowing that I'm going to be completely selfish cuz I aint turning this bow loose!   :D   (Yes... I'm very pleased with the "Hunter II" you sold me!  I have no need nor desire to sell it!  She's got a good home!)

bowdude,

I have never heard it explained that way... and what you said made perfect since!  To be honest... I HAD one of the hottest wheel bows around... and I was never overly impressed with the penetration that I received from my 3 bladed "Thunderheads".  At this point... my personal opinion is that with a lot of the newer Brodhead's that are coming out... with their "Chisel" tips, and short ratio slope... you need that kind of speed to punch the arrow through the hide of an animal.   I now shoot my recurve more than I EVER shot my other bow, (and I shot it A LOT!) and with the lower speeds... it is becoming obvious that I need to use a little wisdom in choosing a Brodhead!  (Thanks for your explanation!)    

Jeff,

Yep... before I go on-line and shop for Brodhead's... I will defiantly find out what my local archery shop can do for me.  He is good enough that I think he will be more than happy to accommodate me.  He is a good guy with a top notch shop... but he DID give me a funny look when I told him I sold every piece of wheelie equipment I had!  (Oh well!... Rome wasn't built in a day, ya know!   :D   )

troutms,

It is for me!  Although... so often times I have always been the "silent reader" on may of these threads... gleaning from the questions of other newbie's.  The information provided to me within this thread has been rich... and I know I will refer to it often.  I only hope others received as much out of this as I did!    

To All,

I have a long list of broadheads to look up and take a gander at.  (I have my homework to do!)  So... at the risk of possibly being somewhat repetitive... let me ask you this...

"What would be the Toughest 2 blade (threaded for inserts,) broadhead available with a 3:1 ratio?"  (Hopefully in 125 grns.)

Take care!

Donnie

[bluegrassbowhunter]

If I was gonna shoot a 2 blade it would be a STOS..

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

.

[Terry Green]

My set up for Buff was not my normal set up for deer.  I usually shoot 530 grains at about 180FPS out of 60-65# bows for deer, and 630 grains for hogs.  I shot the buff with a 70# Morrison Cougar(no slouch), and a 680 grain arrow with a 2 blade that deflected on a rib....and the 2nd arrow weighed 630 grains with the WW that stopped on an off rib/shoulder.
 
All I am saying is that most guys set ups as yours, 530 grains @ 170 FPS is enough energy to pass through a deer with plenty of penetration in the dirt as well.  I like penetration, and blood trails(if even needed), and lots of tissue damage, that's why I've shot 4 blades at deer for over 22 years.  The only time I don't get a pass through is when I hit the off shoulder or leg bone on a quartering away shot, but the damage is already done.  I have enough energy to pass through a deer like butter.......the only time it MIGHT be questionable is on a very alert deer as tense muscles and movement may impede penetration.  I've only hit one 'my side' shoulder out of over 60 deer with 4 blade Zwickey Deltas, and that was a TX freak that ducked and rolled and lived to see another day.......and there is no guarantee that a 2 blade would have passed through, ...but if he would have ducked and scooted, like a buck I shot this year, I'd rather have my 4 blade go through the liver (as did) than a narrow 2 blade.  

I also have only taken 2 spine shots facing me, over 15 years ago, one at 10 yards and one at 12.....both hit the dirt and never made another step even though the arrow didn't pass through. I haven't taken that shot again since then,  even though I've had plenty of opportunities to do so.
 
No doubt a 2 blade will out penetrate a 4 blade, but that sure don't mean a 4 blade wont pass through a deer like he aint there either and leave more damage and blood behind at your specs.
 
Remember, I'm talking about deer........and if I was to go elk hunting, the head I was using would depend on the bow I I was shooting at the moment.........most likely a 4 blade Zwickey Eskimo.
 
That being said, you gotta shoot what YOU feel is best for YOU.  If you make the perfect shot, all this is moot, but I've always aimed and favored my shots away from the shoulder a bit more most times....ON deer.  And its worked like a charm for me.  I feel that with my set up the smaller bleeders on the Zwickey is not impeding that much penetration,....One, I get them bleeders razor sharp, they negate arrow pinch to a degree, and make more than a slit putting more blood on the ground.

 Some other head my be the charm for you. ......If I had reservations at all, I'd use a narrower 4 blade(Zwickey Eskimo) or a wide 2 blade(Ace Super Express).......and make sure either were very sharp.

 What's your gut telling you?.......that's what you need to go with whether its a wide or narrow 2 or 4 blade.....and if you go elk hunting you might want to opt for a different head.......no big deal.  Just work on putting the arrow in the right spot.

I hope Jason and the other's comes back.......they've got some good advise as well.

[fireman_3311]

Proof's in the puddin'!!! First pic is from my Iowa buck...over 200# fielddressed, second pic, Mo doe, 3rd pic, almost missed...lol, Iowa doe!!! Plus, 2 more Mo does, both liver, and back of far lung, all dead! All taken with the Magnus 4 blade (2 blade with bleeder)
 

 

This last pic, to me anywho, looks like that broadhead was still spinning!!!!


 

[Charlie Lamb]

Paul... I find it interesting that your relationship with Paul Shafer didn't lead you toward 4 bladed Zwickey Eskimos... I've got a lot of respect for Shaf, but am a Magnus I fan from way back, like you.

[IB]

[jonesy]

I would assume that you have heard of simmons land sharks, If not it would do you no harm to check into the interceptors.Ive killed deer with woodsmans,nugent,bear,magnus,zwickey,these are all great heads but,never have i seen a more devistating wound channel that is produced by the 190 gr. interceptor. I believe 160gr interceptors are the glue on type.Jonesy

[Roger Norris]

Somebody called them "Flying Hatchets"...nope, they are "Flying CLEAVERS"...Magnus I heads with a steel insert. Awesome heads.

[Mike Orton]

I'm a big fan of the Grizzly Grande 190 2 blade broadhead.  I really like the toughness of that broadhead and have been impressed w/ the Ashby reports on splitting bone via twisting torque force rather than cutting through bone with a  sharp edge

But still I was not completely happy with that broadhead.      
I was considering fabricating a new line of broadheads and conducted a fair amount of research into the matter. I came up with a hardened tool steel 2 bladed head 3 1/2 long by 1 9/16 wide.  The broadhead has the ability to be used either 2 or 4 blade.  My finished product is very nice, but on the pricey side to produce.   Knowing how "Frugle" some of we archers are I don't think I could have made much of a profit, considering the cost of production.

I have recently found a much simpler solution.    
My issue defined was I wanted a four bladed head for deer/antelope sized game (animals which would not have severe penetration issues) and a two bladed head for the larger species w/ heavier bone.  I wanted the single bevel cutting surface and a 3 to 1 ratio.  I like the ability to adjust the weight of the braodhead by using various sized Broadhead screw-in adapters. From the low end of 30 grains aluminum to the upper end of 125 grain steel, there are quite a few options to aid in tuning the arrow/broadhead to the bow.   Admittedly I would like a broadhead 1/2" wider than the Grizzly Grande.   I do not believe there is one ideal broadhead for all applications.  However, I am very pleased with my most recent modification to the Grizzly Grande 190.  Using a cutoff wheel on my Dremel tool I was able to cut a thin curf (Slot) into the ferrule of the Grizzly.  This allowed me to insert a Magnus bleeder blade, thus converting the Grizzly to a four bladed head.  I've modified the Magnus bleeders to snap off at heavy impact w/ bone.   This modification is simple enough to do that I do not feel the need to continue on with trying to get my custom broadhead into production.  The cost of Grizzly's is next to nothing and the bleeders are cheap too.    

This season I'm going to give my big Grizzly's a try as a four blade on some deer sized animals.  And I'll hang with the original 2 blade configuration when I hunt Idaho Elk.


just 2 more pennies worth of useless commentary

[Donnie]

Terry,

Yep... I agree... I will definitely go with what I think will be the best broadhead for my set up.  Unfortunately... at this point and time in my career as a Traditional archer... I don't have enough experience to listen to my "Gut Feeling".  So... I will have to rely upon "Informed Opinions".     So... after reading some fantastic information from this thread... and spending much of yesterday evening searching on the web for all the broadheads mentioned...  I'm heavily looking at a 2 blade.... possibly something within the Magnus line... or STOS.  (Probably "Magnus")  Again... thanks so much for the great info!!!

fireman,

Nice looking shots!  I'm just happy to pop the two lungs!  Cool photos!   :cool:  

Jonesy,

Yes... I have, in fact I was looking at them last night.  Although... with the curved edge of the broadhead... I was wondering how easy it would be to sharpen them.  I know that a straight edge would be easier to sharpen.  (At lest it would be for me...     )  Do you have any experience sharpening the Simmons... and if so... was it difficult to get an even edge on it?  (Thanks)

Roger,

The more I look as the Magnus... the more I think I like them.  I also saw on their web-site that they have a lifetime warrantee.  They will replace any Brodhead that you "break."  (That sounds cool!)  :cool:  

Mike,

Your design sounds interesting.  Yes... a lot of archers like to pinch their pennies... while others don't care about the cost... they just want the best.  Just look at today's bows.  Some folks are paying well over a thousand dollars for a bow... and that is on BOTH sides of the fence!  (Just a thought.)    

I looked at the Grizzly's and wasn't real comfortable with the double angles on the blade.  If I'm gonna sharpen them... I will probably want to start with a single... angled edge to learn on... then maybe one day consider either the Grizzly or the Simmons, "Shark".  (Thanks for your input!)

Take care!

Donnie

[jonesy]

Donnie, at first yes, it was a little difficult to sharpen them but, with consistancy you will find the correct swing/ on the file. I used a new basterd file and a ceramic rod to finish.Jonesy

[Nala]

Great thread.

Does anyone know if the MAGNUS II heads that have the bleeder blades have the ENTIRE edge sharp?  It looks like only a small amount is sharpened near the tip.  At least it looks like that small area is sharpened more than the area behind it that goes to the end of the edge.
Anyone?

Thanks
Nala