Nock and Grain Orientation

[Grey Taylor]

We all know that the nock on a wood arrow should be installed so the bowstring is perpindicular to the wood shaft's grain.
Many of us also orient the shaft so the grain rifts on the top of the shaft are pointed toward the point of the arrow. The theory of this is that if the shaft were to shatter on release the back of the arrow should deflect up and away from the archer's hand holding the bow.
Personally, all the arrows I make are done in this manner, for uniformity if nothing else.

Here's my question:
Does it really matter?
Has anyone actually experienced a wood shaft shattering where the rear end deflected up, or down, in line with how the rifts pointed?
It makes sense to stand there and look at a solid shaft and say, "this will happen." But has that been backed up with practical experience and splinters in the air?

Thanks,  Guy

[Onehair]

I have shot wood for 30 years an never gave   much thought to how the grain was pointed. I just made sure that the grain was right with the string. Never had an arrow blow up during a shot.Something to ponder.

[flint kemper]

Have always heard that rifts on top as well pointing away. Even reading old magazines and books,rift on top pointing away, but have been told by someone who is well known it does not matter. Does it??????? Not sure but I have never seen one split that way and really do not want to take any chances. This will be a good thread. Flint

[Orion]

Grey, in addition to what you do, I also put the straightest grain on the nock end of the arrow. If there's any tendency toward grain run out or bend in the shaft, I put that end toward the point.  Much easier to straighten there.  Otherwise, one ends up mashing feathers straightening the arrow if the arrow has a bend toward the nock end.  Straighter grain there is also less likely to break than grain that runs out or near the edge.

To my recollection, I've never had a shaft break because of bad grain, shaft too light for the bow, etc., but I hand select all my shafts and have been doing so for more than 30 years so there is virtually no grain run out on my shafts/arrows.

Until Compton's this summer, I could say that I've never had a wooden shaft break on the bow, but I broke one there.  Pretty sure I shot a cracked arrow, one I glanced off a target two or three shots earlier and forgot to check before putting it back in my quiver. Noticed that it was quite bowed in my peripheral vision, but shot it anyway.  Bad decision.  Don't know where the front half of that arrow ended up. The back half landed about 5 yards to my right and front.  One piece or the other gave me a good welt, which turned into a sizable black and blue spot, on the inside of my bow arm bicep.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just cut my nocks 90Deg's of the grain. So far I have never had an arrow brake, other then hitting something very hard or hitting it the wrong way ( side ) or if I'm trying to Robin hood a arrow.

I also wrap the nock just under the cut (throat). My shafts are 11/32" end to end no taper.

[Dave Bulla]

I've always heard the same thing.  Perpendicular and run out on top.

At one time I took it one step further.  

If you spine test an arrow, you will find a weak spine side and a strong side.  In between you will find varying degrees of deflection.  I figured a fella could fine tune his arrows by orienting the nock so that the exact right spine is towards the bow.  You have to ignore the grain to do this.

Honestly, I'm not a good enough shot to tell the difference and I was a little nervous about changing the orientation of the grain precisely because it gets everyone says to go 90 degrees out.

Maybe one of you all would want to mess around with this but you'd have to be a better shot than I am...  Well, okay, that's not gonna be hard    :rolleyes:

[sagebrush]

I always use four fletch so I don't worry about it. The reason I use four fletch is I don't have to think about nock orientation on the string when I go to shoot. I get more wear out of my feathers that way. Gary

[ChuckC]

My wife had an arrow break on release during high school gym class.  The shaft entered her hand between thumb and first finger and exited near her first finger knuckle.  It was thru the skin, but caused no serious damage like it could have.
ChuckC

[Old York]

It's probably not necessary and a waste of
time to take a few minutes to orient the rifts correctly....

Until something breaks, then one has to deal
with a possible serious injury and maybe
even permanent nerve damage.

I  do  follow the suggested practice of proper rift orientation,
I figure it's a cheap insurance policy.
It also means there's left-handed and right-handed arrows, oh no!  

[Orion]

Dave there usually is a 1#-3# difference in spine as the shaft is rotated, sometimes more, depending on the wood. I know some folks do rotate the shaft to get a tad better spine match.  I've always felt it was more important/safer to orient the grain 90 degrees to the string/bow.  Wood is very forgiving material and no one I know can detect/shoot a 3# difference.  Better to be safe IMO.

[Fletcher]

Some say it matters and some say it doesn't.  I know it matters to me.  I hand spine all my shafts to the rift and align the nocks the same.

The "doesn't matter" group may be right, bit I don't want to find out they are wrong!

[LimbLover]

Can someone post a pic of this orientation????

I was told to align the nock where the grain began to "feather". I hope this is the same thing.

[Grey Taylor]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. This has been on my mind for awhile and it's good to see what others think of it.
Fletcher, that's pretty much what I think. It may not matter, but I don't want to find out it does in the midst of splinters flying.
Old York, I've seen people mildly chastised for asking about left and right handed arrows but with this subject, it really does matter.
Sagebrush, you bring up a very interesting bit of information: with a four fletched arrow it will be nocked both "right" and "wrong" on a shot to shot basis.

I don't think we've made any definitive determinations here but I've sure enjoyed seeing what others thik on this.

Guy

[Grey Taylor]

LimbLover, here's a picture of what we're talking about. Those "points" are the rifts where the grain is running off the shaft. The theory is that they should be on top of the arrow pointing to the tip.

 

Guy

[Jim Curlee]

I also build all of my arrows with that exact same grain orientation. Seems like the right way to make the arrow. Everything the same.
I don't think it matters at all.
Years ago, I wanted to check this theory out. I went out to the barn, and shot a whole bunch of arrows into the block wall of the barn.
I wanted to see if I could get an arrow to shear on the grain line, never did.
If they have internal stress fractures they will shear on the grain line, but hopefully you have discovered that problem, before you made the arrow.
Jerry; I picked up a nice 14' Larson wood/canvas boat last week, she will be a beauty.
Jim

[LimbLover]

GAH...he explained it right but I became confused with cock and hen feather. He meant to align my top feather on the "points". I put the points on the INSIDE of the arrow facing me.

Sadly I had to waste some nocks but oh well. Probably would have been fine but I'm paranoid like that.

Thanks guys!

[Orion]

Grey:  I mentioned before that I've been hand picking my shafts for a good number of years now.  Most of those shafts have no grain run out at all, so I usually don't have to worry about orienting the rift.  To the extent that some do, it's in the final six inches of the end I face toward the point. Still conscious of the rift orientation, but it probably doesn't make much difference on on shafts with grain that straight.  I realize, of course, that most of the shafts available today don't have those good grain qualities.

Jim:  Nice find.  You'll enjoy it.  I sold a 14-foot Penn Yan to a buddy of mine a few years back when my garage got full.  Fortunately, I still have access to it when I need a fix.

[Grey Taylor]

Orion, in an ideal world we'd all be working with shafts like that. I'm envious that you're able to find enough to suit your needs.
But, the world is what it is and we've got to make do with what we can get.

Guy

[R. Combs]

Here is a picture of the correct rift alignment from T.J. Conrads book.

 

[Jim now in Kentucky]

I have never heard of a documented case of a wood arrow breaking on release unless it was already damaged.

So, the potential danger is only there if we  don't bother to check our arrows when we pull them or retrieve them.

The nock orientation idea came about with self nocks when the string could split the shaft if oriented parallel to the growth rings. With plastic nocks, it is really irrelevant.

Jim