Moderator...Please kill this thread. People are getting Rude. Thank you!

[Salty Gnome]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Suck it up...lesson learned.

Im new here but this is a pretty ignorant remark if you ask me...I'm sure he isn't talking about pennies here...custum bows cost alot but I guess if he had your money he could burn his eh?  I wish I was rich and could just say "eh the heck with it lesson learned now let me whipe my behind with another hundred"

[Biggie Hoffman]

Maybe...but next time I'll bet he does more research, gets references from guys who've had custom bows made before and sticks with a reputable bowyer.

He's already said as much.  It's a tough break but there's not much he can do about it.

[Zradix]

Biggie
Problem is he was a new bowyer.
I took him at his word.
There were not a lot of reviews out there at the time I ordered. All that a read were positive except for a few people saying the final finish wasn't great.

I'm not a bow snob. I wanted a well built bow. If I had to sacrifice good looks to save a few hundred bucks so be it.

I gave the new guy a chance.

A few weeks after I ordered and paid the SHTF with the guy.
Lots of late or unshipped bows etc.

I did my research. I trusted a Man's word.

Really about the only thing learned here is "you win some you lose some"
I'm not happy about losing.
But I'll keep playing. I'll keep trusting people in general.

[Killdeer]

Gnome, you are new here. You did not give your name for your profile, and I guess you think we can't figure out your presumed state.

Biggie has been here from the beginning, and has helped more folks, given more practical advice, and forgotten more about hunting than most of us will ever learn. He has a heart of gold and a generous nature. He is big enough to ignore your rudeness, but I am still a little small in the heart.

You are new here, so I will leave your kneecaps alone, for now.
Killdeer

[Zradix]

Jeez.. can't we all just get along?
I've seen Biggie be nice.
I've seen Biggie be not nice.

Just so happens this is the 2nd or third time he's had this type of remark on one of my threads.

I don't know..Maybe I've wronged the man in some way. I remember one of my very first posts on this site. Probably was some question that was          lol But anyway Biggie piped up with a bit of rude comment there. That was my first impression of the man. First impressions last.

The problem with typing a conversation is that there is no vocal tones or facial expressions.
You can't tell if someone is joking or semi serious...especially if you don't personally know them.
I think it's best to stay away from threats joking or not for the sake of civility.

my 2$

[Zradix]

I would assume...we all know what that does...That Salty Gnome is from New Jersey and Makes grape juice or possibly wine.

[huey]

Good call Killie, I still don't know who the bowyer is and why don't we want people to know? Maybe post in product review.

[ridgerunner_sc]

Its crazy when things go wrong in an transaction...
people get their feelings hurt or were deceived from the start...I do beleive that the name of the bowyer should be made public... customer service is very important

[Zradix]

The bowyer is Dave Ruff. Siegework creations

I didn't start the post to bash the guy.
That has happened a lot on many sites over the last few months.
I was just hoping to get a better idea of what to do than I could come up with.

[K. Mogensen]

Originally posted by joekeith:
What do expect from Seigeworks?  You were warned about him a long time ago.  As far as selling the bow forget it.  Nobody will buy one of his bows.  The only one I know of that he actually delivered only lasted about 6 months before twisting all up is now unshootable.  Get your money back, stop waisting your time with him.

Page 2, I believe the bowyer was mentioned.  

[K. Mogensen]

Sorry, you beat me to my last post.

Zradix, I don't neccessarily think that Biggies comment was that bad. Yeah, he was a new bowyer, and there wasn't a whole lot of reviews out there to read, so you took him for his word. But, from what I think I've read, you can't get your money back? So there's not that much that you can do is there? I mean, to me, the grip is nothing like you asked for, so it's not the bow you paid for. You could send it back to him to sell, but then your out a bow. I'd keep it, learn to shoot it if I could, or burn it if I couldn't. It's worth a shot I think. If you can't shoot it, then I think your just gonna have to take it in the shorts.

I'm just trying to look at the other side of this is all. Not trying to come across as being rude.

Thanks!

[Zradix]

That is about jist of it isn't it.

Anybody looking for a fixer upper????lol

Too bad the guy is in Texas. that's more than a stones throw from me in Michigan.

Time to make some lemonade as the saying goes.

Thanks all

[Ray Hammond]

I don't believe Biggie was joking, or making threats.

You see, the problem is this- today, people don't want to be told the truth so much as they want to be told what they want to hear.

It makes them feel better.

Biggie told you the unvarnished truth.

You've already stated the guy told you he wasn't giving you your money back because he didn't have it.

You've already indicated that he doesn't have the skills to do what you need done, and there's not even enough wood left on the riser to build it the way you want it even if he did.

Biggie, and a few other people on here are like Simon Cowell (spelling?) the guy on American Idol (my daughter's favorite tv show) people think he's rude sometimes- but its not rudeness, its honesty.

If you want to hear what you'd like to hear, talk to yourself in the mirror.  There's no constructive criticism or amount of sugar coated nonsense that's going to fix this- sometimes bad things happen to good people and there's no "FIX".

This is one of those times. Trying to get a custom-built bow for under 300 dollars was at best a pipe dream. Don't compound that by asking for advice and then not taking the best advice you got on the entire thread because you didn't like the responder's tone.

Think about it this way- a bowyer will have 100 dollars in materials in a bow. Then all his shop supplies, jigs, hotboxes, power equipment and hand tools, epoxy, air compressor, and a huge pile of other stuff that breaks down, wears out, and has to be used up on YOUR bow to get it done.

Add in 20-30 hours of hand time, especially for a new guy- at 10 bucks an hour he's already eliminated any real profit....he'd be better off going out and flip burgers and avoid all the hassle if that's all the money he wants to earn for all that hard work.

Suck it up- learn from the lesson- and make a better choice next time. That's my 2 cents as well.

[Plumber]

keep the bow .hang it on the wall an get on with life. lessons come to us in many differnt ways.yours come by bow! if the guy aint going to make it good or he cant then save your self the worrie!

[Biggie Hoffman]

John, my comment was simply put, I thought, with no intent of being rude.
After reading your posts it just seemd to me there isn't much you can do about it.
I don't know how it could be construed as a rude comment. Maybe it's just me.

I hadn't realized I'd singled you out for rude comments either. Don't know why you feel you've 'wronged me" somehow. I'm hardest on the people I like....ask Marty!

[Marty]

Yes you are!  Simon Cowell of Trad Gang- now that is funny! But he looks like Randy!

[Ray Lyon]

Great post Ray, from my perspective spot on.  

Zradix, I'm sorry about your loss with this project. It's unfortunate when you believe you found a good deal and in turn it's hard earned money lost. Certainly it's a painful learning experience.  Good luck in the future.

[horatio1226]

This thing has been beat to death, here and other places. Thanks for saying it Biggie. If I like the bow a particular bowyer is making, I buy it and let him make it. I don't go and ask him to change his design for me. You get what you pay for    ! Thanks Biggie!

[LBR]

"Trying to get a custom-built bow for under 300 dollars was at best a pipe dream."

Not to hijack the thread (I think it's run it's course for the most part), but the above simply isn't true.  Chek-Mate Falcon, custom built, $265.  That doesn't include optional woods, it's not the tricked-out version, but it's an excellent bow, made to specs, and under $300.

It's rare, but it's not "impossible" and it's not a "pipe dream".

[LBR]

I'll add that I agree with doing your homework--and that doesn't mean reading accolades on message boards.  I have a friend who has nearly $1,000 invested in un-shootable junk that the bowyer will not warranty.  He's gotten good press on most message boards, and sounded really good on the phone, but when the rubber met the road...well, I have the evidence in my shop.