Article by G Fred in the new TBW.. please re-read with a better explanition on pg 3

[L. E. Carroll]

I just got my new Oct/Nov TBW today.  There is and excellent article by G. Fred that is in agreement with my thoughts recently, on things that may be making trad hunting too easy.  Specifically, the use of trail cameras.... he also mentions lighted knocks, gps, hand held radios, cell phones [ things, which may by defination, be catoragized as electronics ]and ATV's.  

I sort of aggree with all that he has to say.. I'm wondering if others have read the article and your thoughts?

I must admit however, that I hunt private property [ same two ranches for years] for Mule Deer and do have the owners permission to "retrieve" deer with an ATV as long as I stay out of his winter wheat... I'm almost 60, have COPD and run out of air quick with exertion.       :(       I do not use it as a means of hunting.  Would that be permissable with your idea of trad hunting our not?          

Gene

[wapitimike1]

Guilty of all charges. I love my trail cams. Won't go deep with out the GPS. Lighted knocks are awesome for perfect shot location. Lastly texting your buds while on stand to see what's moving is as good as it gets!!!

[vtmtnman]

 

I've noticed since I've started browsing trad forums and magazines that trad is like a religion to most.Lots of folks that are always trying to tell other folks what's making hunting too easy and what is trad this and that.Really getting on the side of old.

You'll notice those same folks that try and tell you whats making hunting too easy or what's not trad aren't using selfbows and stone points with only a burlap sack for clothing.    

Use what you want as long as it's legal.Hunting and archery are fun for me because I use what I want.  

[ishoot4thrills]

G. Fred also knocks on "fancy aiming systems"(read gap shooting).            

Yes, there's lots of "more traditional than thou" and "trad police" folks out there ready to jump on us folks who use carbon arrows, trail cams, and us that actually may see the point of the arrow and use it as a crude aiming device, heaven forbid! (I don't own a trail cam but I plan on buying one someday!)

Must we float to our favorite hunting spot via homemade birch bark canoe, with our solid wood yew longbow and cane arrows with stone points, wearing buckskin covering and a coonskin cap to be accepted by some hard core trad preacher? Give me a break.

So it's not okay for us to shoot carbon arrows and use GPS devices but it's okay for them to fly in an airplane, that may use GPS navigation, to a remote hunting spot in Alaska and use a motor boat to get to their said hunting location? And who also booked their guide online before boarding the plane? Some bash using any technology in trad archery and then use the internet to advertise their archery products at the same time. I don't get it, I guess.

[Mudd]

Wow! Thank you!

Some one else sees something exactly the same as I do!! How scary is that? Way!! I'd say!!

vtmtnman quote "I've noticed since I've started browsing trad forums and magazines that trad is like a religion to most."

That quote has a real ring of truth in it!

It's like we are telling others "you can be considered "Traditional" as long as you do it like me or look like me or believe the way I do.

I'm figuring out that I'll never be good enough to to fullfill someone Else's definition of what "tradional" is... and that's ok!!!

I am the the son of "The King" and He sets the rules for me and has my measurement. I am assured daily, "I am enough... of whatever!" and so are you and you don't need me or anyone else telling you what the standard is for you!! Period!!

I am told to "Go and sin no more!" How I do that is... practice it daily.

God bless,Mudd

PS: By definition, "to sin" is "to miss the mark"... How cool is that? Way! I'd say!!!!

[stevewills]

well i kinda see it like this...i dont put anyone on a pedestal and i kinda dont follow anyones path.dont get me wrong i respect everything these people have done for the sport,but i dont care how anyone shoots or the methods they use to hunt,to each is their own,if you wanna use this or that i dont care,i didnt know when i picked up a recurve i became an elitist.im sick of people who say gapping is bad,i dont use the method ,but i dont see anything wrong with it as long as their efficiant with it.i get so sick of hearing these pros or old timers saying this or that is traditional,well im not a traditional bowhunter im a hunter that chooses to shoot a recurve.

[Steve O]

G Fred writes excellent   hunting stories.

[STEVE R.]

I like to read Freds stories. I do not always agree with what he writes, but I still respect his opinion.How ever even with all these gadgets killing a deer or other large game with a trad bow is still tough. I love my gps and my honda. If you ever got turned around in a Louisiana swamp and could not find your boat to get back, You would most likely get a gps also.Also havin to pack a deer in 80 degree heat is tough that is were the honda come in.It all depends on were you hunt, and how much help you have when you ned it.

[owlbait]

I heard Fred discussing the use of cell phones duringhunting at Compton's. Another Board member was telling how a buck passed his stand so he called his son to tell him a deeer was headed his way. Fred told him Pope & Young would view that as a violation of their rules, using an eletronic device to aid in hunting. It was an interesting conversation. Personally, I feel there needs to be some rules and either you follow them or you don't. If you want to record your animal as a P&Y animal, follow their rules. You could always join SCI, they are really relaxed on their expectations. I don't see how technology used to advertise or travel has anything to do with using technology at the time of the shot.

[J. Holden]

Thank you Mudd for reminding me of who I need to be interested in what He thinks of me.  I needed that today!

-Jeremy

[David Mitchell]

I have not read the article yet so maybe should not comment until I do....but that seldom keeps us quiet, huh?  I don't own a trail cam but have nothing against their use.  I do depend much on my GPS in unfamiliar territory--nothing trad about getting lost.  I am directionally challenged and love that little arrow showing me the way--and I do carry a compass as well just in case.  Where I hunt I have excellent cell phone coverage and since I hunt alone much of the time it just makes good common sense to carry it.  How smart and trad would I be if I fell and broke my leg and the phone was back at the truck??  I give Fred or anyone else the right to do it like they think it should be done, but realize that my views may be just as "right" as theirs about some things...just different.

[cbCrow]

I know what Traditional means to me and don't concern myself with what others do. I believe we are Archers regardless of what type of equipment we use. To me some of the things that are mentioned do not fit into my realm of archery, but I will not say a bad word about the other fella for using them if he chooses. Life is too short and sweet for me to poke at another.  

[SELFBOW19953]

A question for you, then.  Where do we draw the line on what's traditional (or do we need to)?  Is a late 50's wheelie bow less traditional than a double carbon bow made last month?  Is a recurve/longbow designed on a computer traditional?  Is a recurve/longbow glued up with the latest glues and finishes traditional?

Personally, I don't use carbon arrows, scent lock, cover up sprays, bait, or ATVs because I think it gives me an unfair advantage over my quarry.  I have no problems with people who do use them (even though I think some of the claims are BS).  That's MY way of doing it, and I don't expect anyone else to "do as I do". I do not/will not impose my beliefs on another hunter.  I do, however, expect anyone who hunts to be honest, fair, and ethical.

[mscampbell75]

I honestly dont see the point of putting a label on ourselves as type of hunters.  

For me it's a PERSONAL challenge in what type of gear I use.  Wheather it is "TRAD" enough to someone else has never crossed my mind.  If someone wants to use every gagdet known to man to hunt with, it is no skin off my back. It is thier right as long as it is within the law.

[mrpenguin]

I think Asbell's point is similar to that of Peterson's (see Man Made of Elk), Mitten's (One with the Wilderness), and the Wensel Bros. (various) that hunting is about the chase and being close to Nature, not necessarily about killing the biggest bucks to brag down at the lodge about.  Some folks think it should be done with the most primitive tackle, hand fashioned, and simple.  Though I do not believe this is the case (I use a modern reflex delfex longbow, made by Damon Howatt/Martin, carbon or wooden arrows, astroflight skinny string, carbon steel broadheads, and synthetic limbsavers)  I do believe an intrinsic part of the traditional bowhunting experience is the practice of woodsmanship.  Learning to read sign, tracking, stalking, learning food sources, plants, prey animals, geology, basic meteorology, etc... that is (or should be) a separating factor.

Recently I saw a product at Cabela's that just make me shake my head...  a tree stand umbrella... frankly if you need an umbrella to go hunting, maybe you should just stay home....

I think that's what these gentlemen are referring to as they discuss 'traditional'.

And for the record, anyone who does not bring a cell phone into the woods today is not thinking straight.  Accidents happen.  Getting lost happens.  That phone can easily save your life.  I consider it essential survival gear.

[ron w]

All that was said above I agree with in one way or another. As far as cell phone use, where I hunt hunt there is no service and I most times hunt alone so who would I call...lol! If you need to put a buck in the P&Y book you aren't calling anybody to tell them it's come'n, your going after it or try'n to plan a way to have an encounter. ATV's are not allowed where I hunt,guys till use them and risk getting a ticket. I walk, use ground blinds and blow downs. Fred does write a great hunting story and his wife's wool shirts are fantastic. The good thing is we all have the right to express our thoughts and opinions.

[chopx2]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
--nothing trad about getting lost.  

David, I have to disagree. I think getting lost is very traditional. I've been doing it for decades    :p  

Sorry, thought the thread needed some lightening up.

[Daz]

I think there needs to be an acknowledgement that we may be moving to a tipping point. Hunter recruitment numbers continue to decline, and John and Jane Q. public are becoming more and more disconnected from the natural world.

With that comes knowledge through imagery and presentation. A guy on a quad with the latest technology out in the woods is seen more and more as being representative of what a hunter is, and that coupled with higher kill ratios will send a message to everyone (game managers included) that hunting needs to be curbed,banned, or at the least special archery opportunities reduced.

Non hunters don't see the larger picture, they just hear that hunters use radios to communicate locations of game, and use lighted nocks to make easier shots, and are too lazy to walk...Again perceptions at large.

My go-to guy for mountaineering info is a non-hunter who is almost an anti-hunter. He supports me in what i do because he feels that the way i hunt (on foot, longbow, pack in/pack out) is  the last vestige of "honest hunting" (his words). His views are representative of many outdoors oriented folks our age i've met, and these folks vote and donate time and money to causes.

Cell phone in the woods...wow...i don't even get cell service in my YARD!

[Brad_Gentry]

Well said, Daz. I think that's a valid point that not a lot of folks think about.

[Running Buck]

As with any outdoor endeavor there are extremes in meathod. Bow hunting has the folks that want to pursue game in a loincloth with a self bow and reed arrows. On the other end of the spectrum we have folks that want every piece of techno-engineered bell and whistle they can carry into the woods. What matters most is ethics, its what you do when no one else is around,your shot placement and recovery of the animal. Its about how much respect you have for the game you pursue. As for a GPS,lighted nocks,cell phones and ATV's making the hunt easier? Depends on your definition of easy.