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Author Topic: Article by G Fred in the new TBW.. please re-read with a better explanition on pg 3  (Read 2445 times)

Offline mrjsl

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I am not giving up my reading glasses.

Offline Mojostick

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So you don't want a reading stone?   ;)

Offline longbowman

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I love the article.  That's why G. Fred is my hero.  I came in to the sport before any of the gadgets were heard of and never bothered with any of them.  I have a good friend who has all of them.  I've never seen a person worry so much about stuff like he does and I still manage to kill more deer and good buck than him.
     We all have to admit we live in a "make it easier" society or nobody would have given second thoughts to his article.

Offline Old York

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I curse the day ATVs became popular.

Any of you pick up an Outdoors Life lately?
Field and Stream?

I see them at our club and they make me want to puke from the ads
they have promoting the hypertechnology of today's "hunting".

You can stuff your sabots into the printing presses all you want,
they're still gonna run. Just follow the money, $ame a$ it ever wa$.  :banghead:
"We were arguing about brace-height tuning and then a fistmele broke out"

Offline Chris Shelton

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I always chuckle at these threads   :biglaugh:    "[dntthnk]"

I walk into the woods with my bow, my camera, and my lanky self. So I find it interesting that some people think anything electronic makes the hunt easier.  

Seems anymore my priority is capturing the memory on film while hunting. Similar to a trail camera I am able to go back to past film to see where I had good success. I can just look at the film and recognize the location.

I dont know but when I am in the woods with snow in my face stalking a mature buck on foot with a bow in my left hand and a camera in my right, it sure doesnt seem like a crutch?  

GPS and cell phones don't work where dad and I hunt.  The terrain is VERY dangerous, you western guys have nothing on this terrain.  You may only be a mile into the woods, but it could take rescue days to find you . . .  mainly because in the Appalachian mountains you HAVE to go where normal people cant/wont because that is where your best chance of success lies. So is it such a bad thing that dad and I carry a radio??? It is the only way to stay in contact with one another.

Seems that anyone getting bent about someones opinion towards electronics in the field need to take my stance . . . .I'm gonna hunt the way I feel like, if you don't like it get over it  :)
~Chris Shelton
"By failing to prepare you are preparing to fail"~Ben Franklin

Offline Mojostick

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Please don't take this as being too jaded, but I was in the sporting goods business for 15 years and owned a successful fly fishing store for over 10 of those years, before selling out due to a combination of long hours burnout, a wife who travels for work and having had 4 children under the age of 5.

Having owned a retail sporting goods business for over a decade, I was around different writers and tv celebrities at the trade shows and every year some came into my store before or after filming a trout fishing trip on our home river.

My conclusion was and still is, every outdoor writer and tv celeb has either a shtick or a brand they're selling, or at least trying to sell. And that's for fishing and hunting included. As they become more successful, they become a brand.

Having done TV shows, been the subject of numerous articles and had after hours drinks (the real truth detector) with those involved in either the video or print end of the outdoor industry, the motives were not much different than the retail aspect. Keep product flowing.

If it's a tv outdoor celebrity, watch and enjoy, but don't think the purpose of the show is anything much more than trying to get you to buy the products that the sponsors who essentially underwrite the show happen to sell.

If an outdoor writer, again, read and enjoy. But don't change any aspect of how you do things from the words of a stranger who's ultimate goal is selling copy to cement his/her brand name and to possibly cross promote products they also happen to sell.

So, if a writer does a story about how wonderful wool plaid is, and he happens to sell wool plaid, I'd keep the words in perspective. Or if a writer does a story on how indespensible neck knives are, and he sells neck knives on his web site, keep that in mind. Or if a writer does stories on alternative quiver options and he sells alternative quivers. You get the idea.

There's nothing wrong with good old American entrepreneurial capitalism. Everyone has the right to make a living and use savvy ways to sell his wares and inform at the same time, all while creating a buzz about him or herself at the same time, thus preserving a certain number of pages in the next magazine and interest in the brand name and cross promoted products, which maybe are sold right on the authors high tech website.

But a sales pitch is usually a sales pitch, no matter how accomplished and respected the salesman. Sometimes the sales pitch isn't even about a particular product, but about selling the brand the author has cultivated, which is easily taken by a willing audience.

And there's nothing wrong with that. I did it myself. When I lined up doing a tv fishing show or doing an article with a newspaper or magazine, the whole reason was to promote sales. This is still America, afterall.

But I wouldn't give much weight to any article other than reading for amusement and mild consideration.

As far as the "gadgets" such as phones, a few years back, I started to have a minor heart attack while literally taking a treestand down, 20 feet up in the tree. It was winter, I was in the back of our property, alone, I was in deep snow with lots of clothing on and had really exerted myself.

I didn't have my phone with me.

When I knew something started going really wrong with me, I got down out of the tree, dropped everything at made way to the truck. I was so dizzy and nauseous that I felt like I was going to puke. When I looked in the side mirror of the truck, my face was ash grey and I remember saying out loud "I'm in big trouble out here".

My fear was that my family would wonder why I didn't come home and they'd find me face down in the snow, dead.

I drove back to the cabin and luckily found like 8 baby aspirins in the bathroom drawer that I literally chewed up and swallowed with spit, since we shut the water off for winter. I wanted that stuff to work asap.

I found a beer in the kitchen and sat down, not wanting to do anything to exert myself. I sat in the cabin for 20 minutes, drank the beer and felt god enough to drive home, but still not right.

Needless to say, I made it home, called the Dr. and had a stent put into a 70% blocked artery 3 days later.

So, you can guess my attitude about having a phone on me. Now, I don't text anybody, at anytime. Not even in daily life. And I don't call buddies that I just saw a deer.

But from now on, I have a phone with me whenever I'm doing activies at the deer camp, regardless if winter, summer or hunting season.
Anybody with any health issue's owes it to his family to keep a phone on them.

A side note, what I didn't know is that my family cholesterol was over 300! I'm on cholesterol meds for 5 years and got it down below 200 and my last stress test came thru with flying colors.

If you've had a parent or sibling that's had a heart attack, you're a candidate. Find out your cholesterol and if over 35 with a strong family history of heart disease, and you have high cholesterol I suggest you DEMAND to have a stress test called in from your family doctor.

And don't think twice about turning your ringer off and throwing your cell phone into your gear back. It just may save your life.

Offline mrjsl

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Mojo - I am getting to the age where it is definitely advisable to carry a phone along. And by "the age" I mean I still eat gravy like I was 20, but ain't had a wake up call yet or a bad report from the doc yet.

It would have saved me from spending the night in the swamp last september for sure, as would my compass which I left on the dash of the truck. I did learn a lot about the square mile of swamp I was lost in, that I would not have known if I had a GPS.

And so you all don't think I am just a total purist, I did have my remote keychain and i climbed a tree and pressed the panic button to see if I could locate my truck. But, I was a mile from it it turned out.

I have hunted with guys who have GPS dog collars (coon dogs) and instead of listening to their dogs or trying to figure out what they are doing, they spend all their time looking at the little screen that shows where the dog is... one of my dogs wore one one night and I did the same thing. I found out she is a lazy hussy, but she still treed more coons than the hard working dogs she was with.

I usually do carry my phone when running the dogs, especially if I am by myself. Mainy because of the possibility of getting snakebit.

Offline Mojostick

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Nobody ever plans on having a heart attack out in the woods or slipping on a log and blowing a knee out or what have you.

It's worth having the phone with you, just in case.

Offline Cherokee Scout

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I am not a Fred Asbell fan. I do not like his shooting style and do not like s lot of what he writes. I have met him and like him as a person, but I disagree with a lot of what he writes and teaches.
But.......this article is one of the best I have read recently. It hits at the heart what I believed while growing up and what might be changing in our sport. I think Fred hit a "home run" with this article.
I use GPS and many of the other things he refers to,  I think I will step back and try it without those items again.
John

Offline TommyBoy

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I haven't read the article, but I've always been concerned about the use of trail cams. The P&Y bilaws state that you cannot use electronic equipment to pursue game.  Does anyone know if P&Y has ever rejected an animal due to the hunter using trail cams?  Just wondering ...
TommyBoy

Offline Bladepeek

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I can't remember who said this, and I'm quite probably mis-quoting him(or her?), but it went something like "Character is what you do when you know nobody is watching". As long as I can live up to my expectations of what is honorable, ethical and honest, I'm really not too concerned about what mold I fit in. Probably better be a rather fat mold anyway:-)
60" Bear Super K LH 40#@28
69" Matt Meacham LH 42@28
66" Swift Wing LH 35@28
54" Java Man Elk Heart LH 43@28
62"/58" RER LXR LH 44/40@28

Offline Mojostick

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I have nothing against Fred. I own one of his wool shirts that I use for layering and 2 of his wool bow socks.

I don't use trailcams anymore either. I bought one a few years ago and gave it to a buddy after a year. But that was a decision I came to on my own. Others should decide for themselves what they choose to use or not use.

My point is, we're all capable of making our own decisions about how we wish to enjoy our outdoor experience.

Sure, we need to teach our kids about the woods, the tree species, deer sign, how to scout and how to read a compass. But some may choose to supplement that with a trail cam because maybe the kids like seeing pictures even if they hadn't been able to make it out recently.

At least for me, there is no orthodoxy required for my deer hunting experience. What everyone wants from the experience is as different as we are as individuals and even the different geographic regions we hunt.

In some area's, a long, wandering walkabout still hunt is possible and a great way to hunt.
For others where every 40 acres is private and posted, a still hunt isn't impractical, it's counter-productive.

But to admonish someone because they don't "wander", when wandering isn't possible and stand hunting is the smart way to hunt, isn't worthy advice, especially if the advice is unsolicited.

Offline Mojostick

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Bladepeek,

Here's a good Also Leopold quote...

A peculiar virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of his conduct. Whatever his acts, they are dictated by his own conscience, rather than that of onlookers. It is difficult to exaggerate the importance of this fact.

Offline TommyBoy

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Any P&Y member here? Do you know the answer to this??

I haven't read the article, but I've always been concerned about the use of trail cams. The P&Y bilaws state that you cannot use electronic equipment to pursue game. Does anyone know if P&Y has ever rejected an animal due to the hunter using trail cams? Just wondering ...
TommyBoy

Offline JohnV

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Most of the hard-core traditional writers out there employ "pick and choose" ethics with regards to equipment and accessories. It's the stuff the other guy uses that is always the problem!  Do they walk from their house to where they hunt?  Do they use small planes to access remote hunting areas where there are no roads?

One traditional writer bashes anyone who hunts bear over bait yet sees nothing wrong with hunting cats behind dogs or shooting game over small water holes.  Go figure.

I get a kick out of anyone saying that we need to be more like Pope and Young.  Are we talking about the same Pope and Young who thought nothing of taking 100+ yard shots at standing and running game?  Dead animals in their books look like porcupines with all the arrows sticking out of them.  While I admire our bowhunting pioneers I hardly think we want to emulate all they did.
Proud Regular Member of the Professional Bowhunters Society

Offline Mojostick

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Tommy,

The rule...

 http://www.pope-young.org/bowhunting_fairchase.asp

By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached.

Offline TommyBoy

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I know Mojo, the part that says "locating" is the part that made me ask the question.  To me, using a trail cam to locate deer is obviously against the rules.  However, I have never heard of anyone being denied admittance to P&Y for using trail cams. I could be wrong, as I am not a member of P&Y.  I wish a big name P&Y Board member would clarify this issue for us - I know you guys read the forums ...
TommyBoy

Offline Mojostick

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My guess is, if the rule was strict, P&Y would lose about 90% of their entries. The hard part is defining "locating". Many deer are already located and a cam may just give a close up view from another angle on a deer already located.

Offline TommyBoy

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Mojo, my point exactly! The records really don't mean as much now, since the old records were done without the use of trail cams. To me, it's like the whole "juicing" debate going on in baseball - should we really have someone in the records books who used steroids up against the old time greats like Babe Ruth that did it straight?
TommyBoy

Offline Mojostick

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To me, coming from a very heavily pressured area of Michigan, the records never meant much anyway.

The records typically come from good soiled private land with much lower hunting pressure where bucks are allowed to age. Also from states buck harvest is limited to either one buck a year or one for each season, bow and gun. Michigan allows any hunter to kill 2 bucks in any combination of seasons. For example, a guy could kill 2 bucks on opening day of bow season.

Anyhow, in many parts of the state, a 2.5 year old basket 8pt is "the buck of a lifetime".

Proximity, habitat, buck age and access are far more important than "skill".

My oldest hunting buddy bowhunted with me for 20 plus years in Michigan. His largest buck here was a 2.5 year old 8pt that maybe scored around 90. He then moves to northern Kentucky and in the first 3 years kills a 150 class 16pt, a similar 13pt and a 150 class giant 8pt.

The first year I hunted in Illinois, in 3 days I passed up 9 bucks bigger than anything I'd ever seen in Michigan and killed a very nice 11pt, that while never formally taped, a taxidermist who is a scored said it was 140-145 gross.

My skill or lack thereof didn't change from hunting Michigan one week and then Illinois the next, but my proximity to a much older class of bucks did, and so did the quality of the soil and habitat I was hunting. And the hunting pressure in Illinois at peak season was more like Michigan in late december.

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