Article by G Fred in the new TBW.. please re-read with a better explanition on pg 3

[L. E. Carroll]

3arrows,
 
I have seen alot more pictures of Fred just standing and apparently enjoying the view of nature, than I have beside "Trophy Animals".

As a Matter of fact, most of the deer I have seen him posing next to in his pictures, are the kind I seem to take..    

I think his article was great, as it seems to have gotten many of us to thinking about what he chose to write about this month.

Gene

[LV2HUNT]

I have not read the article but I do not really understand the problem with "lighted" nocks other than the fact that they are electronic.

I do not use them but just do not see how they would not be a good thing. The arrow has left the bow so they are not really an advantage in that regard. They seem to me to be beneficial from a game recovery standpoint.  

No strong feelings either way just have always wondered why.

[onewhohasfun]

I agree with Mr. Todd Smith 100%. I don't think I could improve on your response. The harder the task, the more work required, the greater the reward. I hope I never get lazy.

[Don Thomas]

Come on, guys! I have my ideas on these topics, Fred has his, you have yours; fair enough. But all Fred was trying to do in this article was make us THINK about it. Are we really so defensive that we can't accept that suggestion gracefully? I'll bet that if someone hadn't made each of us ask similar questions a long time ago,a lot of people here would still be hunting with compounds. Don

[graybarkhunter]

FORGET THE WIND (comin out of their mouths), JUST HUNT!

[wapiti792]

I re-read the article after seeing these posts. I found it to be very thought provoking. I love the fact that it made all of us think some. There is nothing wrong with examining something, talkin' it around the campfire, and weighing in. What is interesting is the fact that nothing was said about NOT doing those things. Questions to ask ourselves of how we FEEL about it, not DON'T do this or do that. A mans gotta know his own limitations, what he will endure in hardship for the love of what we choose as traditional. It was a well written piece, and not only did I enjoy it, it stopped and made me think. That alone is a good thing.

[Overspined]

this is a fun thread. good conversation

[Holm-Made]

I just read the article.  It doesn't hurt once in a while to have an article published that is thought provoking.  The article made me look at my hunting and ask myself why I choose the equiptment and techniques I use.

If I look back on the changes that have taken place in our sport of bowhunting the last 20 years and if I envision the same rate of change the next 20 years, as is likely to happen, I'm not sure I like the looks of our sport 20 years from now.  

We are all free to choose our own path but it makes sense to personally understand why we are making the choices we make.
Chad

[portugeejn]

Because of a nagging injury, I may use my .30-06 this year  

RonP

[Kevin Dill]

The only constant is change.

No matter how much we'd like to "freeze" things...time...how things are done...it's simply never going to happen. As much as we think we're doing things the old, hard way...hunting with modern day recurves, longbows, travel, communications, knowledge, equipment, etc has very little in common with how things were actually done fifty years ago. It's fine to be nostalgic in thought...even behavior...but no way to stop the march of time and inevitable change.

Maybe a better question is: What will "traditional bowhunters" be doing 40 years from now?

[mrjsl]

I never have liked the idea of using trail cameras. It is a major shortcut. I don't use a GPS while hunting either. I carry a compass religiously. I have a phone with GPS, but using one in the woods causes you to pay less attention to the woods, which rightly ought to be bad for your hunting skills.

However... I do find trail cameras useful. On some public lands where they are allowed I go coon hunt at night and my dogs manage to find every camera in the woods it seems like. I think my dogs like to have their picture taken.

This lets me know what areas many other deer hunters are focusing on, and around here on public land that is as important or more important than what deer do.

I will not use the cameras myself, I will not use GPS in the woods either. I have spent the night in the swamp before because I left my compass on the dash of the truck, so I am willing to pay the price for shunning modern navigational good sense.

I prefer to hunt w/ no electronic technology. When I hunt an area I know extremely well, I often don't even carry a light.

[San Juan Slim]

I just got my copy of TBM yesterday.  I saw this thread last night.  I got up this morning, made my coffee, read Fred's article, turned on my computer, sat down in my living room looking out at the San Juan Mountains and the Rio Grande Pyramid, and decided to respond to this lengthy thread.  Whether anyone will actually go to page 7 and read my response, I don't know.

I think Fred made it very clear that he was not condemning any of these activities but simply stirring up a thought process.  Many of the things he mentioned are things I never think about.  It did get me to thinking about using cell phones in the blind to text my hunting buddies or post a thread on Trad Gang while I'm watching some antelope off in the distance.  I did just by a new GPS with topo maps and much better technology than my old E-Trex that I used to help find my way back to the truck after dark.  But then, I too had to ask why I hunt with machined wood shafts, laminated bow, and fine European boots rather than hand sewn, brain tanned moccasins, self bow, and flint knapped heads on cane shafts.  Of course our Native American Indian brothers would have had to use spears rather than bows to be traditional and their spear throwing ancestors would have used clubs I guess in order to be classified in the trad catagory.  

Traditional is certainly not a black and white boundry.  But what Fred was talking about was making things easier.  We all choose our longbows and recurves because we enjoy shooting them, not because they are easier (although in certain hunting situations they may be).  I believe he just wants us to start thinking about how easy we may want to make it for ourselves.  Every time I go out to shoot or walk the mountains in search of elk or deer I find myself pondering the same questions about why I use certain gadgets and why I choose not to use others.  This discussion certainly should not be a thread to pass judgement on Fred Asbell, but a time to ponder why I opt to use a GPS but won't shoot a bow with a metal riser.  Why I will use laminated or hex shafts but don't want to shoot carbon arrows.  Are you less traditonal than me if you shoot carbons and I shoot wood?  I may think so, but I also think I'm very much less traditional than the archer who shoots a selfbow and wood shafts he fashioned himself using only hand tools.

In actuality, Asbell's arcticle was not about "traditional" at all, but basically questioning the shortcuts and gadgets we use to make hunting easier.  If someone had not wanted to make hunting or fighting with their enemy easier centuries ago, we would have never had our bows in the first place!

Mike

[ChuckC]

Kevin.  I disagree.  Yes, change is inevitable. .  but the point here is..  I have a choice in THIS matter.  Simply stated I don't have to do what I don't want to do.  I don't have to use all those crutches just because everybody else is.  Just a thought.

ChuckC

[pickaspot]

After reading through this discussion, I had to smile at what a bunch of strong opinioned individualists most of us are at heart. That is not a bad thing.
It seems to me that this thread is just what GFA had in mind - to stir us up and make us think about the choices we make. For me, safety and ethics lead the pack followed by fun. I take my son & kids reguarly and find that unnecessary "restrictions" can be an obstacle to recruiting new blood.
Trail cam pictures stoke the fires of imagination for youngsters (and grey hairs alike) and a 2-way radio or txt capable phone enhances the enjoyment and safety of setting-up a few hundred yards from my 14 year old son.
For what it is worth - trail cams can help, but they don't kill the deer! We have harvested plenty of bucks that we knew well from their photos...but there are a couple that I have seen for 3 years on film, but NEVER in person!

[L. E. Carroll]

I remember, back years ago when I made the decision to return to trad.  I was seeking a  "simplier way to hunt" that allowed me to be on more "even terms" with the animals I was hunting.. I think that through our everyday living, with all of the technological advances happening around us, that at some point technology may have snuck into my hunting process.  This technology has made it once again "easier" and similar in some aspects [ but definatley not the same] to that which some could equate to the advances the compound bow gave us....

I'm glad I read this article, as I am in my mind, re-defining how I want to hunt and bring it back more to what I had in mind when I made the swith back to a "Simpler" way to hunt..and still do it within my physical limitations that my age and lifestyle as smoker and a welder of 30+ years have created... [ I hope my rambling made some kind of sence        

I'm saying that I have re-defined "Simpler" in the way I want to apply it to my hunting ... and for this thought process .. I say "Thank You Fred" for opening my eyes as to what crap I have allowed to creep in, and now change back a bit to "what it used to be".

Gene    

[Buckskin57]

Great post,Thanks.Reminds me I got to find a 5th grader to help me figure out how to run this GPS my wife got for my B-day in FEB.These (friendly)ADK.MNTS. can get pretty owley in NOV.

[Jon Swanson]

I have never been a fan of trail cameras during the season.  Out of season I don't mind so much.  But I really enjoy the scouting process.  I don't think all those items are wrong.  Just make a choice you are comfortable with that doesn't make you feel as though you are cutting corners.

[ishoot4thrills]

Originally posted by mrjsl:
.......I don't use a GPS while hunting either. I carry a compass religiously. I have a phone with GPS, but using one in the woods causes you to pay less attention to the woods, which rightly ought to be bad for your hunting skills........
 

You don't usually walk around in the woods with the GPS in hand staring at the screen while hunting! You generally just mark the location where you parked your truck, turn the device off, stick it in your pack and forget about it until you get lost and then you use it to get back to your truck. What's the harm in that? I look at it like it's just a compass that uses batteries.

[mrjsl]

Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
 

Originally posted by mrjsl:
.......I don't use a GPS while hunting either. I carry a compass religiously. I have a phone with GPS, but using one in the woods causes you to pay less attention to the woods, which rightly ought to be bad for your hunting skills........
 

You don't usually walk around in the woods with the GPS in hand staring at the screen while hunting! You generally just mark the location where you parked your truck, turn the device off, stick it in your pack and forget about it until you get lost and then you use it to get back to your truck. What's the harm in that? I look at it like it's just a compass that uses batteries. [/b]

Because if you have one, you know you can't get lost so you don't worry about getting lost.

If you DO worry about getting lost, then you will end up knowing quite a bit more about the woods you hunt in over time. If it is an unfamiliar place, and you aren't sure you can walk out in the dark, you may not go to that deep stand, or stay that last half hour. If you want to do these things, you will spend the time to familiarize yourself with the area.

GPS also makes people think in waypoints - points on a grid. Knowing the grid itself is also relevant to your hunting success.

Now I live in the deep south, where if someone is "deer hunting", they are likely to be looking at an electronic feeder, and have electronic cameras strapped to the trees all around, have GPS and phone, and probably even have a gadget that keeps mosquitos away. If they bowhunt, there's a decent chance they are willing to shoot 50-60 yards at deer as well.

So when I meet someone else around here who is a deer hunter, I often have absolutely nothing in common with them. If it comes out in conversation that I don't have a feed bill, don't plant food plots, use scent killer, or scents, or buck lure or cameras or a GPS, or 95% of the deer hunting widgets they sell these days, then people look at me funny - like I am a retard. My wife doesn't hunt and even she has noticed this.

However, by the time I have hunted a place a short while I can blood trail a deer on my hands and knees a long way in the dark, stand up look around and know exactly where I am at and how to walk straight to the nearest road or trail.

[Mojostick]

To follow the logic, the magnetic compass is high tech. Using celestial bodies for navigating and sun dials to tell time instead of a wrist watch would be more trad.
Don't even get me started on reading glasses. LOL