What damage does a Fast Flight string do?

[M_Kanzler]

What damage does a Fast Flight string do to a bow that isn't made for it, and why?

[mscampbell75]

From what I understand,  FF string have NO stretch and All of the remaining energy of the shot is absorbed by the limbs.  Especially the tips!!

Other strings materials have strech and absorbes some of the energy. AKA: not has hard on the tips.

Someone please corect me if I'm wrong.

[DDyer]

Don't know the reason why, but I saw a bow with the limb split right down the middle from the string nocks because the person was using a fast-flight string on a bow that wasn't made for it.Saddest part was I was going to buy the bow from the person because I have never seen before nor since a bow that shot exactly where I was looking like that one did.  :(

[JamesV]

I tried a FF string on my browning wasp recurve and on the second shot it ripped the string knock about an inch on both sides of the top limb...............James

[SteveT]

A friend of mine made the mistake of buying a string at a bow shoot and didnt notice that he was buying a ff string and gave it to his bro ,for a older non ff bow, his bro called and after a few shots it looked like one limb tip had been cleanly sawed off!

[M_Kanzler]

It sounds like the lack of stretch allows the energy(kinetic and leftover
potential energy) to jerk the limbs abruptly at the end of the shot.

Actually, the potential energy is there all the time, so it's the
addition of the kinetic energy causing a sudden spike in the loads
on the tips & limbs. It could be a vibration causing it to break.

Thanks! I enjoyed learning about this!
(I may be wrong in part or even all of my hypothesis,
but it sounds plausible to me).

I was wondering if the reduced mass & size of the string might allow
the string to get too much speed - which never sounded quite right.

[LBR]

What it does depends on who you ask.  I've heard about and seen a lot more bows that broke with dacron strings than with FF--but when a bow malfunctions with a dacron string, normally any and every thing but the string gets blamed.  If someone stumps their toe with a FF type string on their bow, then it's the FF's fault.

Sometimes it can damage a bow, if the bow wasn't made for it.  String grooves cut improperly and/or tips not reinforced are the two main factors I've been told about.  

ALL materials have some stretch...some just have a lot less than others.  I don't see lack of stretch as a negative, since you can normally take a bow that has punishing hand shock with a dacron string, put on a FF type string, and tame it right down.  Less shock means less energy is resonating down the limbs--how can that be harder on the limbs?

I've been TRYING to get answers on why some bowyers say what they do about strings, with little to no luck--nobody wants to reply.  One will void the warranty if you use a flemish string on his bows, or if you use dacron (NOT FF__DACRON!).  Don't know how to contact this bowyer, had no luck with one of his dealers.  Another claims flemish strings are "less accurate, dangerous, and could damage your bow".  I e-mailed this one, no reply.  Heard from yet another that claimed flemish strings can cause limbs to twist--didn't bother trying to get an explanation on that one, because it's ridiculous and false.

Anyhow, to answer the question...if the bow is made properly for the material, and the string is made properly, it doesn't do any damage...at least I've never seen or heard of verifiable proof.  I use a FF type material (Dynaflight '97) on all my personal bows, including my selfbows.  One longbow has been my "go to" bow for the past 15 years or so, it's never had anything other than a FF type string on it, and it's still going strong--no damage at all from the string, although it's back at the shop for it's third re-finish (I'm real hard on my bows--not on purpose, I just use them).

Chad

[James Wrenn]

The biggest reason for damage is the old bows construction and materials used.Most have badly shaped string grooves and some of the materials used for overlays was just not very good.Recurves are just more prone to damage anyway.Even selfbows will handle skinny little FF strings with not much for overlays on the tips but the string angle is different for a recurve and it needs to have things built right to use anything but a fat b-50 string. jmo

[LBR]

Member
Member # 24595

                 
"It sounds like the lack of stretch allows the energy(kinetic and leftover
potential energy) to jerk the limbs abruptly at the end of the shot.

Actually, the potential energy is there all the time, so it's the
addition of the kinetic energy causing a sudden spike in the loads
on the tips & limbs. It could be a vibration causing it to break."
 
If that were the case, it seems you would find a violent increase in hand shock--but that's not the case.  It's generally the opposite--less shock.

[Sixby]

Glue and glass on some of the older bows plus the fact that they may not have strong enough overlays or a good teardrop shape to the notch.

Most of those bows can have a phenolic overlay or horn or antler overlay or even exotic wood overlay put on them and the string grooves recut and work great with ff. Unless the notch is cut in a teardrop fashion the takes tension off of the glass ff will split the glass. I lost a nice Bear Grizzly finding out the hard way.It actually split the limb sitting on the rack not being shot.I don't leave bows strung now either (grin) God Bless you all, Steve

[Doc Nock]

Ok...I can give some first hand on this one.

I bought one of the last in stock bows a fine young bowyer had after he got out of the business and went back to being a machinst to feed his family. I loved it and shot it well.

I met a guy on the other site many years before Gang became a reality who built strings. Actually hunted with the guy.

The bowyer refused to add micarta to the tips when I refinished the bow and he sprayed it. We discussed the newer materials. The lack of stretch creates a "sawing motion" in the limb grooves.

He told me to have extra strands added to the loops of a FF or better material. The friend who built strings made one of some flat honeycomb stuff I think was Dynema or something.. He added extra strands in the loops.

It cut the top limb like a laser! Straight down both sides of the string groove. I still have the riser and ONE limb... it was a beautiful bow. Broke my heart!

Turns out the bowyer wanted to say, "served loops" not extra strands.

My advice...send the bow to Bowdoc or some other repair person and get it reinforced tips or stick with B50.

[Eugene Slagle]

I've heard the normal issues that many say about FF string on a bow not made for it & only saw one bow that have had the string nock ripped off possibly due to the FF string but me I'm still using B50 because of 2 reasons.

Mostly I still have 4 decent sized spools of it & since I'm a cheap scate I refuse to buy any more till I run low on my supply which may be when I'm too old to shoot.

Secondly, the only bows I own that I know will handle FF is my Dorado & my Sky Hawk, I'm not certain of my Zona & too chicken to take a chance, & I know my 2 Grizzly's will not handle FF.

[M_Kanzler]

Originally posted by M_Kanzler:
                 
"It sounds like the lack of stretch allows the energy(kinetic and leftover
potential energy) to jerk the limbs abruptly at the end of the shot."

Posted by LBR:
If that were the case, it seems you would find a violent increase in hand shock--but that's not the case.  It's generally the opposite--less shock.

Well, that shoots my hypothesis down.          
I'm enjoying learning.
Still haven't shot  my new bow.  Work kept me from it until today...
today I exhausted myself digging out blackberry bushes (some were like trees) and it got late.  
But I'm still learning, even if not physically.
Once I quit being sore, and get a new arrow rest on my bow I will try it out - then the other learning begins.
I do have a string that came with the bow - it may be a bit long. I'll twist it and see if that gives me enough adjustment to get the right brace height.

[LBR]

I'm a string geek--it's my hobby, my business..I really enjoy it.

One thing I've learned while doing my homework...back in "the day", when your string choices were basically linen or B-35 (before my time), along came this new-fangled material called B-50.  Predictions of shattered bows were made, and most certain to come true.  Go figure.

[M_Kanzler]

The guys here recommended you Chad.

I have an idea for a color scheme I'd like...
My idea is for mixing tan and brown strands together in each bundle - maybe one bundle with 2 more tan strands in it and the other with 2 more brown strands in it - the idea being to make it look like natural sinew. I don't know whether I should get flemish or continuous, or what thickness of serving, or even how many strands... I would leave that up to an expert. Not sure if you would be interested in mixing the strands like that (e.g. if you pre-make the bundles, it would take too much time).

But it might be a popular color scheme.

But first I have to see what length I need to get the right brace height - currently it's too low (with only a couple of twists), so I may want to go shorter than the one I got with the bow. But I might want more twists for looks perhaps - so I'll see how many twists it takes to get the right length (and what that length turns out to be)

[LBR]

I appreciate the good word.  I can do that (mix the colors), but I can tell you now it's just going to look brown, and not like real (or even artificial) sinew.  I used to keep artificial sinew on hand for strings, but it's really not a good material--way too much stretch.

I can help with serving size and such--just shoot me an e-mail or give me a call.

Chad

[Art B]

"What damage does a Fast Flight string do to a bow that isn't made for it, and why?"

I know of two 60" hickory selfbows of mine that didn't take to well to the FF string    . One was a static (my pride and joy) and the other a R/D with good beginning tension. Many clam that FF is safe for selfbows ..............well, now we know not all! ART

[M_Kanzler]

Originally posted by LBR:
I appreciate the good word.  I can do that (mix the colors)...

I can help with serving size and such--just shoot me an e-mail
or give me a call.
Chad

Email sent.    

[LBR]

Art, I'm no bowyer (don't even play one on television), only made one selfbow (with a lot of adult supervision), but I'm confident saying that as long as the string grooves are cut at the proper angle, the tips are reinforced, and the string loops are properly padded, FF type materials are safe for selfbows.  I've been shooting them on an osage (deer antler tip overlays) and a hickory (bison horn tip overlays) for years.

M.K., reply sent--thanks!

Chad

[Art B]

Chad, all the precautions you mentioned were taken. Bows didn't break completely, only cracked the first growth on their backs. Both on their lower mid-limb in about the same location.

I'm sure for most selfbows the FF type material is just fine. But for relatively short (60" ntn), higher performing, heat treated bows such as these, it turned out to be a learning experience on my part. Both bows were well built, time proven, and would not have failed, in my opinion, using the dacron material. Everything has it's limit I suppose.

Just wanted to pass that info along incase someone else has a similar set-up and thinking about trying the same thing. Art