3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: What a load of  (Read 1245 times)

Offline LongStick64

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
What a load of
« on: August 30, 2010, 10:05:00 AM »
Sitting home watching North American Hunter and they had a Pro Tips section, female shooter using a Matthews Monster compound making a stupid statement about the need for speed. This is the kind of crap we don't need new archers to fall victim to. This makes my skin crawl. When are they going to realize that hunting is about the hunters skill not the equipment. Anyone can shoot a fast bow, but that is not a guarantee of a making the shot count.
The reason I bring this up is we as "trad" archers are not immune to the speed trip. I often see posts on how fast a bow/arrow combination is. The truth is simple, speed is not everything. Yes it's nice to have but make sure you aren't sacrificing something else just for a speed kick. To me performance and speed are not equal, speed is part of the equation not the answer.
Primitive Bowhunting.....the experience of a lifetime

Offline Keith Zimmerman

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2616
Re: What a load of
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 10:07:00 AM »
Well said.

Offline Nosight

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 684
Re: What a load of
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 10:12:00 AM »
As stated above, well said..

Now the problem as I see it is "How to convince the newwer people to archery that this is true?

Hope we can come up with some answers...

Later....Buzz
Remember...aim small miss small...

Offline chopx2

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 953
Re: What a load of
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 10:13:00 AM »
I agree. The worst place to learn about archery is TV...let's face it they are there to sell product. If you don't sell speed, what else are the compound manufacturers going to sell this year.

The rest of the gadget industry has followed suit.

I see more poor penetration shots on TV now than ever before with these ultra fast bows and mech heads at close ranges. You'd think they would figure out it ain't working.
TGMM-Family of the Bow

The quest to improve is so focused on a few design aspects & compensating for hunter ineptness as to actually have reduced a bow & arrow’s effectiveness. Nothing better demonstrates this than mech. BHs & speed fixated designs

Offline Mike/Columbia Basin

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: What a load of
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 10:15:00 AM »
I agree but I also see a lot less of the speed hyp in the traditional comunity than I did 15-20 years ago.

Offline D. Key

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1185
Re: What a load of
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 10:18:00 AM »
I agree 100%.  Watched a show this weekend and saw a well known hunter shoot a doe @ 50 yds with a compound.  I just can't figure out why they do this and wonder how many animals these "Professional Hunters"  wound, don't find and never get aired. I know all hunting shows are about $$$$$ but more than success they need to represent responsibility and ethics.

Just say'in...
"Pick-A-Spot"

Doug Key

Offline ron w

  • Contributing Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
Re: What a load of
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 10:18:00 AM »
Most of those shows are to sell the sponsors product, nothing more. Ethics and woodsman ship are lost in the production. There are a few good hunting shows,but darn few!!!
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities. In the expert's there are few...So the most difficult thing is always to keep your beginner's mind...This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.  Shunryu Suzuki

Offline SteveB

  • SPONSOR
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
Re: What a load of
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »
Speed is one of the few proformance factors that can be measured. If qualified properly by comparing equal gpp, it is an accurate measure of power between bows.

Offline **DONOTDELETE**

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 10441
Re: What a load of
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2010, 10:49:00 AM »
Speed KILS when it comes to driven cars, More so when the driver drinks..

Well placed arrows Kills when You take Your time and put it where it needs to go.

I shoot heavy arrows and My speed is slow, but I'm not shooting out past 20yards...

Offline mcgroundstalker

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3304
Re: What a load of
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2010, 10:51:00 AM »
Guess it's up to us to set new archers straight when it comes to "BS". I'm not gonna bash wheelie bows in this thread but (they) are not the same animal.....  :p

... mike ...
"Be faithful in small things because it is in them that your strength lies"

Offline lpcjon2

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 7673
Re: What a load of
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2010, 10:59:00 AM »
I totally agree.The sad part is we are the only ones who know this.And this thread will most likely be yanked.
Some people live an entire lifetime and wonder if they have ever made a
difference in the world, but the Marines don’t have that problem.
—President Ronald Reagan

Offline Ragnarok Forge

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 3034
Re: What a load of
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2010, 11:03:00 AM »
Speed sells and most archers have bought into that theme.  I don't have problems with speed as such.  I do have problems with people who push that it takes the place of proper form and regular practice.
Clay Walker
Skill is not born into anyone.  It is earned thru hard work and perseverance.

Offline no

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 210
Re: What a load of
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2010, 11:08:00 AM »
If I hear BBD one more time & will throw up?  Mike
Big Mike

Offline Andy Cooper

  • TGMM Member
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 915
Re: What a load of
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 11:11:00 AM »
One of the biggest reasons I jumped back into trad hunting (aside from a mended rotator cuff injury and a removed bone spur on my bowhand thumb) is the sheer thrill of getting within spitting distance of game. That takes much more skill than using a laser rangefinder and putting the 60 yard pin on something, or shooting with a scope at 200 or 300+ yards from a centerfire rifle. I found out I love hunting way more than just killing stuff.
:campfire:       TGMM Family of the Bow       :archer:      

My Father's bow rack is the sky.

Offline cartman308

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 15
Re: What a load of
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2010, 11:28:00 AM »
The problem as I see it is the "Them vs. US" mentality.  It's in several of the posts here.  

In my opinion archers are archers PERIOD!   That includes longbow shooters, recurve shooters, compound shooter and even (gast!!!) crossbow shooters!  

I'm not wanting to start an arguement here and won't post again on this thread, but I think this mentality causes more harm to archers in general then all the hunting shows combined.

Offline NorthernCaliforniaHunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1563
Re: What a load of
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2010, 11:29:00 AM »
You line 'em up and start by shooting light, fast spitwads at them. Then you throw heavy, slow bricks. Later, ask them which one hurts the most.
"...there are no words that can tell the hidden spirit of the wilderness, that can reveal its mystery, it's melancholy, and its charm." Theodore Roosevelt

Find me at ShareTheBounty

Offline Steve Clandinin

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2343
Re: What a load of
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2010, 11:51:00 AM »
All that has been stated is so well said.In Canada we have Wild TV,it makes me sick with the exeption of Freddy Eichler.Its so sad to think of someone just starting out,watching all this and believing all the crap the manufactures and "Pros" are trying to push down there throat.There was a huge hunt-fest put on in Saskatoon co-sposored by Cabelas and Wild TV and my Son-in-law couldn't figure out why I refused to go,until I explained it all to him.
Quote from Howard Hill.( Whenever he taught someone to shoot) "Son make up your mind right now if you want to target shoot or hunt as theres a world of differance between the two"

Offline rascal

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 402
Re: What a load of
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2010, 12:14:00 PM »
Even as a compound shooter I never liked the speed "PUSH", never made sense to me. My brother was just the opposite, he would trade bows for a few extra FPS in a heart beat, shot arrows so thin and light that you could barely see em in a quiver.  Part of this was caused by a couple of misjudged distances and part by deer "jumping the string".  Claimed the flatter trajectory and shorter time to target were all the benefit he needed to eliminate such pesky details.  Now truth be told he needed to work on his range estimation and he had a bad habit of shooting at alert deer thus causing a great deal of his problem.  Of course the Pros down at the local sporting goods store helped plant the speed seed and thats all it took.

One practice session he and I got together and he noticed a strange phenomenon, my compound bow was quieter... much quieter than his.  We both hit the target where we were aiming, even did some silly shots like calling out an eye or the targets nose and hitting it.  Also my big ole heavy lincoln log arrows were penetrating the target much deeper than his, had to explain some math at that point (mass X acceleration = force) since my arrow absorbed more of the bows energy and retained it better to the target, I saw the benefit of quieting my bow and achieving great penetration.  As a con to my pros I also saw a degraded trajectory, time to target isnt really an issue if you shoot at deer that arent already coiled like a truck spring and ready to unload.

Now at the pro shop next years bows were still a mechanical marvel of synthetic materials and wheels and cables, no need to get a new one of those right.  Oops!! The new model shoots 5 or 10 FPS faster!!  They were selling the only thing that they could consistently improve on in the course of a single year.  Not to mention at the range guys pulled out that shiney new bow and all eyes turned to the latest, greatest, fastest bow in the market and the owner had bragging rights.  Didnt matter if he could or couldnt shoot well his bow was FAST!

One of the reasons I got back to traditional bows was because I grew tired of the hype and the mechanical beasts that bows had become.  I am a journeyman millwright by trade and even I was wore out maintaining such a gross over statement of technology, so much to measure, so much to fail.  

I have also noticed lately that the new trend with pro shops is to push the distance factor.  Apparently because its fast you can also shoot far, would be nice if everyone who shoots that far were also accurate.  Honestly Ive seen videos in the stores showing horrid shots at insane distances and then the glory performance later when they find the deer.  Never see the tracking job it takes to get there except for the last 20 yards though.  

Fact is they have to sell "easier" and "faster" and "farther" because telling the average consumer that its "hard" and "takes lots of practice" and "takes lots of time" isnt gonna sell many bows.
Hunt fair, hunt hard, no regrets.

Offline Turkeys Fear Me

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 263
Re: What a load of
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2010, 01:08:00 PM »
I agree with SteveB.  Speed is a good measure of a bow's efficiency.  A fast bow with a light arrow is also going to be a fast bow with a heavy arrow.

Some designs are better than others.  Another "load of crap" in my opinion is the assumption that you have to give something up to get speed.  It's not always an either/or proposition.

I agree, you don't need the fastest thing out there, but all things being equal, why would you WANT to choose the slower model?

Offline LongStick64

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2117
Re: What a load of
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2010, 01:14:00 PM »
What really made my hair stand up was on this uninformed tv show was the insistence by this so called expert that the ONLY way she would be able to tag an Elk was using the fastest bow possible. If that isn't an "Us vs Them" what is. The issue here is misinformation, information only meant to sell bows not harvest game.
In my opinion what happens when archers adopt this mantra is we develop archers based on equipment not skill, and that is the fastest way to put money in the Anti hunters bank.
I wish we can have archery shows that speak it as it is. I don't care if you use a compound, recurve, longbow etc. As long as you are DEADLY accurate. And once again being Deadly Accurate has absolutely Nothing to do with speed.
Primitive Bowhunting.....the experience of a lifetime

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©