why dont woodsmans come sharp!!!!

[Apex Predator]

The three different packs of VPA Terminators I have did not come sharp enough to hunt.  Not by a long shot.  They are a fine head, and the bevels were perfectly even.  They were not hard to sharpen.  Some of the old Woodsmans and Snuffers have plagued me though!

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by ChuckC:
Rob.  

Sharpening is not something we instinctively know.  There are little tricks involved that make it or break it.  I can get any two blade head to shave, but I have problems with Woodsmans as well.  

Then we have the issue. .  what is sharp ?  

If it shaves hair off YOUR arm is that sharp ?  What if it won't shave hair off MY arm ?  My arm hair may be more wirey than yours, or whatever.  

Pretty subjective thing.

You are not gonna get a three blade head to be as sharp as the proverbial razor.  That just won't happen, but you should be able to get them sharp.  Even sharp enough to cut your hair.

I think that one factor that is not seen while viewing the videos is the need to be VERY gentle with the strokes on the file and on the stone.  You do not need to press hard at all once you have achieved the right grind.  I personally believe more folks screw it up by pressing too hard than for any other reason.  How do you see that in a video ?

Keep trying Caleb.  Once you do it right, it all falls into place.

ChuckC

i hear ya, chuck.  let's discuss ....

twin blade sharpening by file or stone requires some acquired skill to set and keep the proper edge angle.  using a 'v' steel or carbide does not.  no real skills needed with a KME sharpening system, either.

three blade heads have a larger angle to the blades since they're sharpened 2 at a time as they lay on file or stone.  there is no blade angle to be concerned about.  initial sharpening REQUIRES pressure of the blade to the file.  honing demands little or no blade pressure.

there are steel and carbides that are meant for three blade heads - just a few whisks on each blade and it's sharp enuf to effectively kill game.

sharpness is not subjective.  a blade will either shave arm hair or not.  shaving hair is not the final blade intent - severing critter arteries is where it's at.  you'll know when a blade is ready to sever hide, flesh and arteries.

there's another broadhead factor to consider - the point.  imho, woodsman points shouldn't be left needle pointed, they should be filed to a angled pyramid point for better puncturing and bone deflection.
   
the point of all this (pun intended) is that a hunter needs to depend on the sharpness of his/her blades: broadhead, knife, axe, etc.  bows and arrows are just the delivery tools for what matters most: a deep penetrating broadhead into the vitals of a critter.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by Apex Predator:
The three different packs of VPA Terminators I have did not come sharp enough to hunt.  Not by a long shot.  They are a fine head, and the bevels were perfectly even.  They were not hard to sharpen.  Some of the old Woodsmans and Snuffers have plagued me though!

yes, there were/are problems at least with the woodsman blades - there was a time when they weren't straight, they were concave and impossible to sharpen correctly unless the concaveness was ground out by either a file (slow) or a belt sander (super fast).  the latest batch of woodsman heads i received are dead straight and only required a few strokes on a file and hone to make them, ahem, 'razor sharp'.

[lpcjon2]

Cough! Cough! Snuffers work

[Charlie Lamb]

Caleb... sorry you are having so much trouble with the Woodsmans. You WILL have success and then will be as good at it as you are with a two blade.

As has been mentioned, the biggest stumbling block with 3 blade heads is pressure. Establish the angle by aggressive means (grinder, file, coarse emory cloth) and keep at that until you can see or feel a burr on the edge.

At this point (and not before) switch to more subtle  abrasives.

Usually the edge you get as soon as the burr goes away will be your best. To fine tune it any more risks dulling the edge by rounding it (too much pressure= uneven pressure= rounding)and should be reserved for the time when you've gotten "the touch".

Try this... when you have the head as sharp as you think you can get it, reverse the direction of strokes for one or two passes. It seems to help.

I've also found that the Simmons Wheelie sharpener  works great on three blade heads, giving them the very desirable "hollow grind".

[BowHuntingFool]

I couldn't get either the Woodsman or the Snuffer as sharp as I like em to be or think they need to be..........so I picked up a Snuffer Tamer, now they are sharp as can be!

I really think sharp from one person is totally different than another......I would love to see what some think are scary sharp...

[ChuckC]

Hey Charlie,  Rob. .  what do you guys think of the wheelie or other sharpeners ?  I have issues.  They get the heads sharp, no doubt, and are easy, no doubt. (they also have some technique involved to doing it right), but I don't think they are as sharp as doing it the file / stone / strop way.  Are they OK to use ?

We talk about this a bunch over the years. . . and for good reason.  It is important.  But again, it is not something that is instinctive and it is sometimes not easy to see a good end point.

We all have to remember too, that we are not sending a shaft slowly thru a critters chest.  That dude is moving.  Take that "not so dull" broadhead and move across your skin at 150 to 190 fps and see what happens.

Rob, we did the shaving thing with a friend..  Shaved his arm hair pretty easily, really struggled with mine.  That is what I was trying to point out.  Yes, it is subjective after all.

We are all in agreement. .  we need to get them as sharp as we can.  Let's help each other out to get to that point.  Sharp heads mean better blood trails.  Better blood trails mean better, quicker finds.

ChuckC

[Friends call me Pac]

Caleb I know how you feel.  For 6 days I tried to get my ww sharp and it was one failure after another.  To tell the truth I felt like throwing those heads in the trash.  I could have easily went back to my 2 blades but now it was a matter of honor to get these dang heads sharp.  Somewhere along the way I found a way that worked for me.  I believe it was a matter of feel more than anything else.

Ray has offered to lend a hand showing you how to sharpen them.  Go see him and if you still cannot get a good egde after that well, you have done everything you can do.

[Bear]

I'm with Rob on this. They are hard to beat for so many reasons, including ease of sharpening.

Give me any Woodsman, old, shot into the dirt, you name it. Then give me any old file out of a tool box, and in a few minutes it's shaving hair. If it's in good condition, we're only talking about a few licks, and we're done. If it's been abused or had the grind ruined, it could take longer depending on the condition.

The method Rob describes is the most popular but didn't work for me. Take a look at Dale Karch's method on the video site. Search "3Rivers Woodsman Sharpening".

Pay attention to the light strokes at the end and the change in file angle.

Works like a charm.

[kbetts]

I'm following this closely.  I use Razorcaps a lot and they aren't the easiest to sharpen either.  I'm gettin' them plenty sharp, but not hair poppin sharp.  From what I'm hearing I need to ease up a little on the pressure.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by kbetts:
... From what I'm hearing I need to ease up a little on the pressure.

use whatever pressure it takes to raise a burr on the blade edges, then very light to almost no pressure for honing (removes the burr and leaves a 'razor edge').

[Terry Green]

Closed at the request of the topic starter.