Building up strength to shoot a heavier bow?

[RedShaft]

Hi guys i have not been around for a while, i have not been shooting traditional much due to lack of getting shots at game, so went back to the compound. im now back doing some shooting again with traditional gear. I always had some form of target panic with both, with traditional in was not being able to hold at full draw, like snap shootin. which i shot good that way but never felt i was doin it rite and was not that consistent. i had custom bows 50lb at my draw but i now feel i was over bowed even at that poundage, maybe why i had the panic and snap shot in the first place. anyway im shooting a #45 bow now and can actually come to full draw and hold if i try hard but get wore down quickly, and feel to get this target panic beat i may have to step down even further to #40. im not hunting with this setup now(hunting with the compound) but using it to shoot and have fun, in hopes of one day beating the panic, and returning to hunt with traditional gear. but im wondering how i can build my streangth to shoot a heavier bow to hunt with and still have strength to hold at full draw for a few seconds. i hunt with a compound now at #60. and would like to be in the #50-#55 range for traditional. i know alot of you guys are in the mid #50-#60 lb range. how was you able to work up to that poundage and still have a solid anchor. By the way im a pup at age 28. so it baffles me why im struggling with the light poundage. thanks

[AKM]

I respect the guys that pull 60# or more. I have a Trad Tech Titan with 50# limbs and I swear that I am stronger now than I was just a month ago when I got them. Maybe the strength was already there to pull them back or maybe it's just a matter of my muscles getting used to the weight but they are a lot easier to pull back now than they were when I got them. I have been shooting (not aiming) at a target in my garage quite a bit. I pull back, hold for a few seconds and then release. This strength training regime seems to be working good enough that I wish that I had a heavier set of limbs. John

[RedShaft]

i know when i snap shot i could shoot and not get tired but with the same poundage holding at anchor a few aeconds seems to be alot tougher.

[AKM]

Keep on holding at anchor and it will get easier after a while........unless you have some sort of injury that is holding you back. John

[carbonflyr]

howard hill always believed that a bowman should weight train his body just as any other athlete would. when i started i would shoot at a slow pace for 4 hrs. a day 7days a week.
just go slow and work your way up.
good luck!

[S.C. Hunter]

Yep what has been said above. I often will shoot with only the purpose of holding 2-3 seconds let down repeat and on the third time I will release. I shoot fast 95% of the time and shoot well when I do but I am trying to increase my strength to hold if needed. My first arrow of a group is usually my best because I trust it then I try to make the same shot and find I try to aim.

[Bowwild]

I haven't done this for a while because I don't want to injure these 56-year old bones, muscles, and ligaments. However, when I was shooting traditional 1969-1974 (I've just returned to traditional this year) I would, without an arrow nocked, come to full-draw with my hunting bow and build my hold time until I could do it 1 minute -- I'd start at 15 seconds and go up 5-10 per day (3-4 sessions/day). In less than a month my 51# recurve felt very easy to hold and shoot. Had I owned more than one bow in those days I would have done this with a heavier drawing bow (5 pounds more) than the one I want to hunt with. Of course there are some super archery exercise devices out there these days.

I'm sorry to say that Target Panic for most people, once you develop it, has little to do with the draw weight of the bow (over-bowed can certainly contribute to the onset of TP but it isn't the root cause).

I had TP and it progressively worsened from around 1984-1995. In 1995 I realized it had robbed me of my joy in archery when I wounded a nice buck and a turkey during the same evening hunt -- Missouri. I completely changed the way I shoot (switched from RH to LH)and it fixed the problem, that very moment. It took me about two months to learn how to shoot LH but I was lucky because I am left-eye dominant.  To prevent it from recurring I had to learn how to properly shoot and more specifically how to think about my shooting.  Now, when I miss what I'm aiming at, and we will all miss eventually, I don't feel bad about it, I don't berate  myself for what I did wrong. Instead, I accept the miss and reflect on what I will do better the next shot. Most people who have target panic aren't separating aiming from "shot set-up" before they release and follow-through.

Now when I shoot I go through an 11-step process starting with stance and ending with "Follow-through/reflect". At the conclusion of my shot I reflect: did my bow hand move towards the target and drop down and away from my body and did my drawing hand IMMEDIATELY slide along my face, under my ear and my thumb end up on or near my shoulder?  If not, then I will think positively about doing this the next shot.

The short-cut for me is to simply think, as I'm aiming (aiming is never completed -- the bow must be allowed to move in order to correct -- like driving a car down a straight stretch of highway)I think "thumb to the shoulder" and then I do it. This is over-simplified.  

This information and method is available on DVD.

[Hit-or-Miss]

Fred Bear (50-60 years ago), advocated getting stronger BY SHOOTING A HEAVIER BOW...pretty sound, simple, old school advice. Limit your shots to only 12-15 a day at first. You will get stronger. Going up another 10-15 pounds is not as difficult as most people make it, unless of course there is some physical impairment or injury.

[Bowwild]

Please forgive me, I mean no disrespect but...

I am certainly not inclined to question the advice of my number #1 archery legend, Mr. Bear but....

If one can't perform proper form with the heavier bow I'd stay away from shooting it. It would be fine to draw and hold it but with no intention to shoot. I'd far rather break an arm, even both of them, than have target panic again. I wouldn't wish it on someone who had done me great injustice.

[RedShaft]

Bowwild thanks for the advice, i will def trry drawing and holding to build strength. and i know your pain with the panic its an awful burden to have to bear!

[Hud]

John Schulz wrote in his book, Straight Shooting, that Howard had John and his brother Dan workout with heavier bows, by drawing, heavier bows, back to full draw and pausing at 12" and 18". Right and left handed. I don't remember the weight he reached by this exercise but it was well over 100 lbs. Try it with your regular bow for a week, from both sides before moving up in weight. No arrow, no shooting.

If you find a copy of the book, he explains why it is not necessary to hold, before releasing. Howard started them practicing at ten yards without any target, the proper form. It is explained in the book and in his video, Hitting Them Like Howard Hill. You might find it on Tradgang, or the other auction site.

[Ground Hunter]

Get a heavier bow and start shooting it.  Take it slow.  Use your head.  You will surprise yourself.  You will find that using the lighter bows for "form" a good plan.  I'm 56, skinny, a Diabetic.  I shoot a 70# Hill everyday.  You have to make a commitment.  And yes doing some pull-ups and push-ups will help.  Take your time, go at YOUR pace.  The rewards are great.  For you, and your hunting.  Its easy to sell light bows - they require little commitment and people like doing it the easy way.  I don't like posts on "how little I can shoot."  You will be quite surprised what you can shoot if you only try.  Yes TRY. Good luck to you!!!  Drive on!

[RedShaft]

Thank you men! alot of great advice for me!

[mrkbsm]

If you're looking to build up shooting strength, I have a workout that I use to build up and maintain what I need for shooting my 66# longbow - basically a light weightlifting routine that attempts to focus on the back and other muscles I need to shoot, but without having to go to a gym.  Maybe you can pick and choose some things here that might help.

It doesn't require much for equipment....
1) Bowfit or similar resistance band
2) A few dumbbells or freeweights
3) A GripMaster (gotta have strong fingers too!)

I run through this general cycle 3-4 times:
Stretching bowfit band:  10-15 reps (explained below)
One arm rowing: 10-15 reps each side (pretty easy, just google it)
Push-ups: 10 - 20 (try to do each one slowly)
Bowfit:  10-15 reps (each side)
Gripmaster:  ~40 reps each hand (google it)

(You would start with just one or two cycles through at low repetitions, and work you way up with both repetitions and weight.  Don't hurt yourself!)

When I say "stretching the bowfit band" what I mean is to hold your arms out in front of you gripping each end of the straight band.  Keep your arms straight and pull the band.  You will end up with your arms sticking straight out to your sides with the band stretched across your chest.  Focus on pinching your shoulder blades together and use those muscles to do the pulling.  

The one arm rowing works your back and shoulder muscles.  A google search can explain it better than I can.

One of my larger struggles is keeping my bow arm strong for the 'pushing' part of the draw.  To help with this, I've tried doing push-ups a few different ways, but I think I have gotten my best results by just slowing them down.  I suppose it would be like drawing a bow slowly and holding at anchor, then repeating.  It's much more difficult than running through an equal number of push-ups at regular speed.  

Using the bowfit to simulate drawing a bow helps exercise your shooting muscles, and you can vary the resistance by  buying a heavier band, doubling the band back around, etc.  So you can use that to work up in weight over time.  I use my standard 3-finger draw here to help get those muscles involved as well.  Just pretend it's a string.  (I have started using the BowTrainer for this portion of the workout instead.  Less finger pinch, doesn't wear through bands as quickly.)

The Gripmaster is a spring-loaded hand exerciser, but it has individual springs for each finger.  This helps ensure that each finger gets a workout, instead of just tagging along with the stronger ones.  I like to focus on using just fingertips, since my fingertips hold my bowstring during the draw.  Note that the strength-building here is done by repetitions, not by straining against a heavier model.  (This seemed to help my release when I started doing it a few years ago.  I don't know that I can exactly describe why, but I think the difference is that I can get a cleaner release when my fingers easily hold the string versus fingers that are straining to hold on for dear life.)
I have also noted that if I start to get tired at the end of a long 3D shoot (like today in Nebraska... 7 hours of shooting?), it's usually my fingers that start to give out first.  I can draw, get to anchor, and my fingers decide to release before my brain is really done settling in on my spot.  When this starts to happen, it takes a LOT of focus to keep it in check.  I wouldn't say this is necessarily the classic target panic that people refer to, but it certainly is a case of uncontrolled release and it is caused by fingers that are just a bit too weak or tired.  If my fingers hold up well, I can avoid this problem much easier.  

So I apologize if that got a bit long-winded, but you can take or leave the parts as necessary.  Your mileage may vary, but it keeps me shooting despite having a day job that involves nothing but computer work!  

Mark

[Ground Hunter]

Mark - good stuff.  I also use a grip/finger trainer.  I've also found the TRX trainer a serious help.

 http://www.fitnessanywhere.com/?_kk=TRX&_kt=a5373ede-7efe-4c03-b72e-5623a760278c&gclid=CN30587c76MCFZxo5QodEzag2g

[Johan van Niekerk]

Hi Guys,

I started shooting target style shooting on a 32# recurve when I was about 32 years old. And initially THAT was way too much...My first compound was set at 48# and almost killed me it was so difficult to draw. Anyways, to make a long story short: Today I shoot a 64# longbow accurately and shoot a 70# wheelie (and I'm ABLE to shoot an 80# wheelie but don't like hunting with something that heavy)
I DID, however run into some serious shoulder porblems along the way and had almost a year of no shooting due to this. Basically my shoulder muscles developed unbalanced and that lead to major rotator cuff related issues. Today I am 101% fine. So here's the lesson(s) I learned.

1. To shoot a heavier bow you have to shoot a heavier bow. Just like many ppl said already. Sounds kinda zen-like as a statement  :D

2. Archery does not develop your muscles in a well balanced way. Especially the smaller supporting muscle groups in the shoulders can get left behind. If the supporting muscles are weaker than the main muscles in the shoulder you can EASILY get injured.

So. Practice by drawing a heavier bow (or by holding your current bow for longer and longer) BUT do it both lefthanded and right handed. ALSO get some small dumbells and do additional exercises that isolate each of the four smaller muscle groups in your shoulders. Specifically the general rotator cuff group, and the muscles that suppress the supraspinatus tendon during the motions where your arms is in a lifted position.

For the rotator cuff you can do the following (weight should be about 4-6% of total body weight initially). Hold a small dumbell with your hand on the opposite hip. I.e. right hand, hold DB on left hip. Now raise you hand slow and controlled diagonally accross the body till its up in the air on the same side as the hand holding it. Return slowly to starting position.

For the suppressor muscles (also 4% of bodyweight MAX). Lie down on you stomach on top of something raised. (exercise ball, bench, end of your bed, whatever) so that your arms are hanging down in front. Take a light dumbell and while looking straight at the floor and maintaining a straight back raise the dumbell with a straight arm till your arm is extended in the air with your elbow next to your ear, lower it back, etc

These really helped me. 2 sets of 15 reps each twice a week is about enough.

Btw. I'm a computer scientists. So if you injure yourself, don't sue me, its your business    Go see a physiotherapist for professional advise.

[mahantango]

Both the above workouts sound great. And thats whats it takes- working out. Like any other physical skill or sport, you have to develop the strength to improve. No mystery here, just excersize the correct muscles and you will get stronger. This thread comes up very often, and so many answer "just pull a heavy bow". Yeah,but. Way oversimplified. You will develop much faster, and more important, BALANCED, with a weight training program.

[RedShaft]

thanks again guys your a big help! I feel alot of others could gain from traing as well, not only by shooting a heavier bow, which is not what everone may be after but to fully control the bow they shoot now. that will increase there accuracy!

[buckster]

I re-read your question & would suggest first & foremost that you address form and target panic issues, then work on upping your weight.

JMO, but unless you can become consistent & come to full draw on a repeatable basis, all the other things don't matter too much.

Suggest that you try a clicker, a simple device that can diffuse TP & allow you a consistent full draw on each/every shot.  Also, you might well consider getting a qualified shooting coach.  I attended a formal shooting school a couple of years ago & it has been very beneficial.

Once you get this under control the other good advise offered can be put into place and you'll be on your way.

[DannyBows]

I agree with buckster, cure your form issues first. Do a search for clickers and read them all. I tried something I picked-up watching YouTube videos of Rick Welch the other day. I usually shoot groups of a half dozen arrows or so. I tried just shooting one arrow, retrieving it and shooting it again. I found that it slowed me down considerably, allowing me to pay attention to form more, and I didn't tire quickly causing my form to fall apart. It worked great for me. I was shooting at a 1 1/2" spot from 15-16 yards. I hit that spot 8 straight times! I know that shooting groups I'd have had a bigger spread, with at least one flyer. That may be routine for many of the shooters on this site, but was a step-up to another level for me. When hunting we don't get to do groups, so they really mean squat anyway. The first and only arrow is the one that counts. I now practice for Quality, not Quantity of arrows released. My shooting, and confidence is better served shooting a dozen well excecuted arrows, one at a time, as opposed to 100 half-a##ed ones. I'll be adding a Clicker next to keep my anchor consistent. I love the Trad Journey. When you take the sights, wheels, releases etc.. out of the equation, how well you shoot depends on you, not gadgets. It never gets boring, and I get a great sense of excitement and satisfaction every time I clear a hurdle in skill level. Oh, by the way, I can shoot bows upwards of 60# adequately, but shoot best around 50#, and it's easier on my joints. That is more than enough for the deer I pursue and I find no reason to get hung-up on numbers.
Good Luck out there this season, no matter what you shoot, and enjoy the Trad Journey!